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USS Iowa vs. IJNS Yamato??

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  • #61
    In addition, Tennessee claimed hits starting with her first salvo, and California with her third.

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    • #62
      In a likely battle between Yamato and Iowas, I would rate Yamato as a winner even though I loved the Iowa battleship much. One can draw conclusion from battles on Battle of Denmark Strait and Battle of the North Cape where slower speed but heavily armoured battleship won. In the battle of the Denmark Strait, the heavily armoured but slower bismarck sent the Hood down and the Scharnhorst was severly weakened by HMS Duke Of York before torpedoes slowed Scharnhorst again and letting HMS Duke of York striking her down again. Even though Iowa is much faster than IJN Yamato, but in the end they have lower their speed to score hits and Yamato larger caliber guns and heavier armour proved better in one on one duels.

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      • #63
        I mostly stay out of these discussions because they are meaningless. However, some here, of a rather romantic bent, write as if these ships were out there all by themselves, fighting each other with no human intervention whatsoever. Unfortunately for these people, reality has a way of jumping up and biting them in the ass. In conditions as they were during the war, and not perfect, laboratory, conditions; crews and equipment as they were, where they were; that's reality gentlemen, and "you dance with the girl what brung ya." That being the case, my money's on the American Bluejacket circa 1944.

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        • #64
          Sir,why not before '44?
          Those who know don't speak
          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Mihais View Post
            Sir,why not before '44?
            I believe that by 1944, the US Navy was at its Zenith in terms of what it was bringing to the table, technologically, but more importantly, in terms of training and experience to take that technology and operate it at its peak efficiency. Both the German, and Japanese navies had long since retreated from their respective high water marks. At that point in time, the US navy sailor, and the officers that led them, were about as good as it gets. That is not intended as a slight against our British (to include the other members of the Commonwealth) cousins. No, it's just that there were so many more of us operating in the Pacific in particular, and that force had undergone changes, both evolutionary and revolutionary, in nature, and learned on the fly how to bring those changes to bear as a cohesive unit. Our training pipeline alone put us light years ahead of the Japanese. One thing we never did was succumb to the temptation of keeping our best and brightest at the front until the war was either won, or they were killed. We brought them home to teach our new officers and men how to do it. One can talk until one is blue in the face regarding the merits of one ship class over another, but until one stops and smells the coffee, one will not realize that the war in the Pacific was not won on the decks of battleships or aircraft carriers, but in the classroom, in the rear training areas, and perhaps most importantly, in the 6000 mile long supply train we dragged with us everywhere we went. That's what sank Yamato and Musashi; not airplanes or another battleship, but training and logistics. Boring yes? But true nonetheless.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by desertswo View Post
              I mostly stay out of these discussions because they are meaningless. However, some here, of a rather romantic bent, write as if these ships were out there all by themselves, fighting each other with no human intervention whatsoever. Unfortunately for these people, reality has a way of jumping up and biting them in the ass. In conditions as they were during the war, and not perfect, laboratory, conditions; crews and equipment as they were, where they were; that's reality gentlemen, and "you dance with the girl what brung ya." That being the case, my money's on the American Bluejacket circa 1944.
              Well, I wouldn't say these discussions are TOTALLY meaningless. It's always good to exercise the brain cells on hypothetical (but possible) scenarios as they may lead to a solution of a future and similar scenario.

              What you say about having escorts is absolutely true. I've been helping a friend on some technical details of a fiction book he is writing and in the forward I mention that most of these discussions are only comparing armor to armor, gun to gun, rivet to rivet, etc. It's what goes on in the minds of the commanding officers as HOW to use these huge Battleships, with or without escorts. Some escorts will not make it all the way to the end as they fight each other and the BB on the other side will also blast away at them when the opportunity arises.

              Again, this is all dependent on how well the Commanding Officers of the ships use what advantages they have and how to protect their disadvantages.
              Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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              • #67
                Without weighing both for stats since they are both comparible one thing is for sure. In many cases when the IJN got their nose bloodied they turned for home but that doesnt mean they would have got there either.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                • #68
                  Iowa have Harpoon and Tomahawk, Iowa cumstormd

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by vietminh9x View Post
                    Iowa have Harpoon and Tomahawk, Iowa cumstormd
                    You're a little late on the history of Battleship configuratons. The Iowa class Battleships did not receive 32 Tomahawk and 16 Harpoon launcher or 4 CIWS, or SPS-49 Radar or an extra 400 tonnes of armor (each) until 38 years AFTER WW II ended.
                    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                    • #70
                      That's simple just give the Yamato the same loadout :slap:.
                      RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by vietminh9x View Post
                        Iowa have Harpoon and Tomahawk, Iowa cumstormd
                        Yeah but the Yamato has the Wave Motion Gun and organic air support.
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          Yeah but the Yamato has the Wave Motion Gun and organic air support.
                          now thats funny right there i dont care who u are lol

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                            I believe that by 1944, the US Navy was at its Zenith in terms of what it was bringing to the table, technologically, but more importantly, in terms of training and experience to take that technology and operate it at its peak efficiency. Both the German, and Japanese navies had long since retreated from their respective high water marks. At that point in time, the US navy sailor, and the officers that led them, were about as good as it gets. That is not intended as a slight against our British (to include the other members of the Commonwealth) cousins. No, it's just that there were so many more of us operating in the Pacific in particular, and that force had undergone changes, both evolutionary and revolutionary, in nature, and learned on the fly how to bring those changes to bear as a cohesive unit. Our training pipeline alone put us light years ahead of the Japanese. One thing we never did was succumb to the temptation of keeping our best and brightest at the front until the war was either won, or they were killed. We brought them home to teach our new officers and men how to do it. One can talk until one is blue in the face regarding the merits of one ship class over another, but until one stops and smells the coffee, one will not realize that the war in the Pacific was not won on the decks of battleships or aircraft carriers, but in the classroom, in the rear training areas, and perhaps most importantly, in the 6000 mile long supply train we dragged with us everywhere we went. That's what sank Yamato and Musashi; not airplanes or another battleship, but training and logistics. Boring yes? But true nonetheless.

                            Remember: Amateurs talk tactics, professionals study logistics (a quote attributed to General Omar Bradley).

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                            • #74
                              Interesting comment about the US sending experienced people home to teach new fighters. I am sure I have read that with regard to both Army Air Corps and Naval Aviation but I am less sure with regards to the crews of the 3rd/5th fleets. These were the fleets commanded by Halsey and Spruance respectively which were the same fleets but changed commander and staff. Reported reason was that the commander and staff not in command were planning the next operation while the current commander and staff were engaged in the current operation. I have inferred from this that the crews were not exchanged on a regular basis except through promotion and command tours in the case of ship captains. The history of the Enterprise refers to some sailors who spent the entire war on board.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Shinytop View Post
                                Interesting comment about the US sending experienced people home to teach new fighters. I am sure I have read that with regard to both Army Air Corps and Naval Aviation but I am less sure with regards to the crews of the 3rd/5th fleets. These were the fleets commanded by Halsey and Spruance respectively which were the same fleets but changed commander and staff. Reported reason was that the commander and staff not in command were planning the next operation while the current commander and staff were engaged in the current operation. I have inferred from this that the crews were not exchanged on a regular basis except through promotion and command tours in the case of ship captains. The history of the Enterprise refers to some sailors who spent the entire war on board.
                                No system is perfect, but for example, my own father rotated back home to become the commissioning crew of three different ships. He was not unusual in that regard.

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