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  • #61
    Originally posted by maximusslade View Post
    I would have to disagree. Seems very cluttered to me.
    So it's not just me then?Thing looks like it's got a bad case of warts;).
    "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories." Thomas Jefferson

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    • #62
      It looks like it was designed to inflict hurt. US warships tend to be 'prettier' for lack of a better word. I have had my wife (who knows nothing of warships) look at a picture of a vls equipped tico and untill i pointed out the 127mm cannon she thought i had developed a taste in luxury yachts (wich i have but im kinda short about $200M on the one i want so if anyone here has any spare millions let me know)

      I wouldnt say its beautiful in a blackjack or backfire kinda way but its a macho evil looking warship. It looks like it was built to kill things as opposed to looking like something a graphic designer put together.
      The best part of repentance is the sin

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      • #63
        ....

        that ship look likes a picture of a ww2 battlecruiser,saijong the great, looks way meaner then peter the great.

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        • #64
          I dunno chakos. Being a little bit in the know, I see a US warship and I think impending doom to my enemy. And that is beautiful. I'm sure when a russian sailor looks at ship, he also thinks of impending doom, just not the same kind as my thought.
          Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...

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          • #65
            Originally posted by maximusslade View Post
            I dunno chakos. Being a little bit in the know, I see a US warship and I think impending doom to my enemy. And that is beautiful. I'm sure when a russian sailor looks at ship, he also thinks of impending doom, just not the same kind as my thought.
            Good point Maximus - I wondering if Peter the Great shares similar material issues as the rest of the Russian Navy. It seems that, at the very least, she is able to sail under her own power - directly to the scrap yard! :))

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            • #66
              Originally posted by BBwarrior View Post
              Good point Maximus - I wondering if Peter the Great shares similar material issues as the rest of the Russian Navy. It seems that, at the very least, she is able to sail under her own power - directly to the scrap yard! :))
              And join her sisters amen.;)
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Shipwreck View Post
                Peter the Great in Toulon, France :
                Very nice shot! Where'd you find that?
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                • #68
                  Question about the Kirov class...
                  The Kirov's have 20 x P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) AShM launchers.

                  Do they have reloads for the launchers, or are the 20 missiles in the launchers it?
                  If reloads, how many?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                    Very nice shot! Where'd you find that?
                    Just noticed the question. Sorry for the delay...

                    Anyway, an old friend of mine e-mailed it to me.

                    Want me to ask if he's got some more ?

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by KenMac View Post
                      Question about the Kirov class...
                      The Kirov's have 20 x P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) AShM launchers.

                      Do they have reloads for the launchers, or are the 20 missiles in the launchers it?
                      If reloads, how many?
                      No reloads.

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                      • #71
                        Enemy at the gates !!!

                        Venezuela's Chavez welcomes Russian warships
                        By CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER and IAN JAMES
                        Nov. 25, 2008

                        LA GUAIRA, Venezuela (AP) — Russian warships arrived in Venezuela Tuesday in a show of strength aimed at the United States as Moscow seeks to expand its influence in Latin America.

                        Venezuelan sailors fired off cannons in a 21-gun salute as the destroyer Admiral Chabanenko docked in La Guaira, near Caracas. Russians sailors dressed in black-and-white uniforms lined up along the bow.

                        The deployment is the first of its kind in the Caribbean since the Cold War and was timed to coincide with President Dmitry Medvedev's visit to Caracas — the first ever by a Russian president. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has eagerly welcomed the ships, basking in the support of a powerful ally and traditional U.S. rival.

                        Chavez wants Russian help to build a nuclear reactor, invest in oil and natural gas projects and bolster his leftist movement's effort to limit U.S. influence in Latin America.

                        Chavez also wants weapons — he has bought more than $4 billion in Russian arms, including Sukhoi fighter jets, helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov rifles, and more deals for Russian tanks or other weaponry may be discussed after Medvedev arrives Wednesday.

                        Russia's deployment of the naval squadron — the behemoth flagship Peter the Great, the missile destroyer and two support vessels — is widely seen as a demonstration of Kremlin anger over the U.S. decision to send warships to deliver aid to Georgia after its battles with Russia, and U.S. plans for a European missile-defense system.

                        But Bush administration officials mocked the show of force.

                        "Are they accompanied by tugboats this time?" U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack joked to reporters in Washington. He noted that Russia's navy is but a shadow of its Soviet-era fleet, and reasserted U.S. dominance in Latin America.

                        "I don't think there's any question about ... who the region looks to in terms of political, economic, diplomatic and as well as military power," McCormack said. "If the Venezuelans and the Russians want to have, you know, a military exercise, that's fine. But we'll obviously be watching it very closely."

                        Venezuelan sailors stood at attention along the pier where the destroyer docked, while another support ship was visible nearby. The Peter the Great remained out of sight; the largest ship in the Russian fleet, it was expected to anchor offshore due to its size.

                        When Russia sent two strategic bombers to Venezuela in September, some drew comparisons to the Soviet Union's deployments to Cuba during the Cold War.

                        But both countries have also shown signs of trying to engage President-elect Barack Obama.

                        And Chavez told reporters that it's ludicrous to invoke the Cold War to describe the naval exercises beginning Dec. 1.

                        "It's not a provocation. It's an exchange between two free countries," Chavez said.

                        Russia's ambitions to make inroads in Latin America may be checked by global events. Both Venezuela and Russia are feeling the pinch of slumping oil prices, and their ability to be major benefactors for like-minded leaders is in doubt given the pressures of the world's financial crisis.

                        The maneuvers starting Dec. 1 "should be viewed largely as a propaganda exercise," said Anna Gilmour, an analyst at Jane's Intelligence Review.

                        "Pragmatic Russian policy suggests that it will content itself with a brief high-profile visit, rather than a longer-term deployment that could cause severe tensions with the U.S., at a time when Russia may be looking to re-engage with the new administration," she said.

                        Next week, the warships will participate in "very simple, routine exercises," Gen. Jesus Gonzalez said, enabling sailors to practice reconnaissance, patrol, anti-terrorism and search and rescue operations.

                        Medvedev's tour this week to Peru, Brazil, Venezuela and Cuba was planned before the financial crisis, and Russia must now downsize its ambitions in Latin America because its pockets are no longer so deep, said Fyodor Lukyanov, the editor of Russia in Global Affairs Magazine.

                        "Russia will have to put off big projects like the construction of a gas pipeline across South America," Lukyanov said. The proposed natural gas pipeline is Chavez's brainchild, a controversial and ambitious plan for which he has explored Russian investment.

                        But Russia still has an economic interest in selling more weapons and boosting business in Latin America, and Venezuela can help "open the doors," noted Venezuelan political scientist Ricardo Sucre Heredia.

                        "It's a win-win relationship for the two countries," Sucre said. "Russia gains in terms of its international power and its presence, and Venezuela gains in terms of having an ally."

                        Link

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Shipwreck View Post
                          Enemy at the gates !!!
                          Oh relax, they aren't off Le Harve. ;)

                          "Are they accompanied by tugboats this time?" U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack joked to reporters in Washington
                          So um....are they?
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by eocoolj View Post
                            Its times like these I wish we could send an Iowa down there just to counter them.
                            Well, the US Navy approach to counter PTG is much... SWIFTer...



                            Full story here
                            Last edited by Shipwreck; 28 Nov 08,, 19:19.

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                            • #74
                              Russia-Venezuela exercises begin

                              Russia-Venezuela exercises begin

                              he Venezuelan and Russian navies have begun joint exercises in the Caribbean Sea, close to US territorial waters.

                              The three-day operation marks the first time that the Russian fleet has been in the area since the end of the Cold War.

                              The Russian navy says it will include anti-aircraft defence, and tactics to combat terrorism and drug-trafficking.

                              Russian President Dmitry Medvedev recently completed a tour of Latin America that was intended to strengthen his country's influence in the region.

                              Last week, he and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez signed a deal to promote the development of nuclear energy for civilian use.

                              Balance of power

                              About 1,600 Russian and 700 Venezuelan sailors on four Russian ships and 12 Venezuelan vessels are expected to participate in the VenRus 2008 joint exercise in neutral waters over the next three days.

                              The Russian ships, led by the missile cruiser Peter the Great and three support vessels, left the port of La Guaira at dawn on Monday along with three Venezuelan frigates.

                              Ahead of the operation, Venezuelan and Russian officials rejected suggestions that they were aimed at "third countries".

                              "This series of exercises aims to evaluate the skills and capabilities of the fleets of both nations to fight against terrorism and drug-trafficking," said Russian Vice-Admiral Vladimir Korolev, deputy commander of the Northern Fleet.

                              US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has also dismissed the impact of the Russian naval deployment.

                              "A few Russian ships [are] not going to change the balance of power," she said.

                              Correspondents say Washington has been concerned by major arms deals between Russia and Venezuela since 2005, which have totalled some $4.4bn (£2.39bn).
                              http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7759892.stm
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                              • #75
                                Does anyone know what types of Russian ships are involved and when I can expect them to start breaking down?

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