Originally posted by dundonrl
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The best part of repentance is the sin
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Originally posted by chakos View PostI would completelly disagree with that. One on one i dont see any surface ship in the US Navy being able to go a Kirov and survive. The air defence on it is incredible, almost a hundred S-300 series SAMs and 400 shorter ranged missiles. This ship was designed to absorb airstrikes and unleash a barrage of long range nuclear tipped anti shipping missiles in return. The problem with them is the Russians can at a pinch put 2 out with 1 carrier in any kind of surface action group. A powerful group, but only 1 group.
On the other hand, the Tico can deliver, if properly outfitted for a 1v1 sea battle, a saturation level missile strike. Say fitting 61 of its VLS with harpoons (leaving 61 VLS for Standards and ESSM) and launching them in a way that they arrive at the Kirov at the same time. It S-300 can't even come close to defending a saturation level attack as an Aegis ship.
The Kirov is NOT designed to absorb anything. It is a throw back of the Soviet doctrine of the "Battle of First Salvo" -which is throw everything you got at the USN in a preemtive strike and hope to damage enough it its capabilities because the Russian Fleet will not survive the retaliation.
Lastly, no navy on earth commissions ship on the basis on how it compares in a 1 v 1 battle. So all this is moot. In a more likely scenario, the Kirov will be destroyed before its weapon system even fires in anger by a JDAM dropped by a B-2 on its large magazine spaces creating the largest explosion at sea since the Yamato went down in 1945.
I hard that “Peter the Great” (Kirov Class ) are design as a Air Craft carrier Killer can this ship take on US Air Craft carriesLast edited by IDonT; 01 Oct 08,, 21:06.
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Harpoons cant be vertically launched. Thats why ships have a VLS system yet they still have a quad pack of harpoons mounted on the back.
The S300 (especially the later versions) is considered the worlds most effective SAM. It would definatelly have the ability to shoot down a salvo of 8 harpoons.
Why is it that when the rest of the world sees the effectiveness of the S300 series of SAMS we get this fringe crowd of Americans who believe that its only good unless facing American systems. In the world of anti shipping missiles the Harpoon is considered quite average. Its a weapon that destroyers and frigates use to destroy other destroyers and frigates. Against high end air defence systems it doesnt have the ability to penetrate effectivelly. For that you need the Russian supersonic anti shipping missiles that where designed from the outset to defeat AEGIS.
A subsonic sea skimming anti shipping missile is not designed for that kind of work. The newer version of the Harpoon is actually more designed for littoral warefare than open water work. I see the fact that the US does not deply a decent large ship killing ASM as a sign of arrogance as it currently doesnt have that many potential enemy large ships to have to worry about.The best part of repentance is the sin
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Originally posted by chakos View PostHarpoons cant be vertically launched. Thats why ships have a VLS system yet they still have a quad pack of harpoons mounted on the back.
The S300 (especially the later versions) is considered the worlds most effective SAM. It would definatelly have the ability to shoot down a salvo of 8 harpoons.
And why do you think that harpoons would be the only thing launched in aht Antiship mode? SM-2ER makes a pretty good "Radar wrecker"
And TacTom has a moving target capability (antiship)
Why is it that when the rest of the world sees the effectiveness of the S300 series of SAMS we get this fringe crowd of Americans who believe that its only good unless facing American systems.
As the motto of one of our states says "Show me".
For that you need the Russian supersonic anti shipping missiles that where designed from the outset to defeat AEGIS.
The newer version of the Harpoon is actually more designed for littoral warefare than open water work.
I see the fact that the US does not deply a decent large ship killing ASM as a sign of arrogance as it currently doesnt have that many potential enemy large ships to have to worry about.
I can count "Enemy" large ships on one hand. We fight as a system, so large AShM are not needed. Russia has big AShMs. And 2 large ships to shoot them. We have 10 Nimitz class carriers.Last edited by Gun Grape; 02 Oct 08,, 02:46.
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Why is it that when the rest of the world sees the effectiveness of the S300 series of SAMS we get this fringe crowd of Americans who believe that its only good unless facing American systems.
One more thing, the S-300 is a great anti-aircraft missile. I doubt very much its capabilities of shooting a sea skimmer.
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Originally posted by chakos View PostHarpoons cant be vertically launched. Thats why ships have a VLS system yet they still have a quad pack of harpoons mounted on the back.
Originally posted by chakos View PostThe S300 (especially the later versions) is considered the worlds most effective SAM. It would definatelly have the ability to shoot down a salvo of 8 harpoons.
Originally posted by chakos View PostWhy is it that when the rest of the world sees the effectiveness of the S300 series of SAMS we get this fringe crowd of Americans who believe that its only good unless facing American systems.
Originally posted by chakos View PostIn the world of anti shipping missiles the Harpoon is considered quite average. Its a weapon that destroyers and frigates use to destroy other destroyers and frigates. Against high end air defence systems it doesnt have the ability to penetrate effectivelly.
Originally posted by chakos View PostFor that you need the Russian supersonic anti shipping missiles that where designed from the outset to defeat AEGIS.
Originally posted by chakos View PostA subsonic sea skimming anti shipping missile is not designed for that kind of work. The newer version of the Harpoon is actually more designed for littoral warefare than open water work. I see the fact that the US does not deply a decent large ship killing ASM as a sign of arrogance as it currently doesnt have that many potential enemy large ships to have to worry about.
Think about this one for a second. How close can you get to a US carrier group before you encounter resistance? How close can you get to any other naval task force in the world before encountering resistance?"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by Gun Grape View PostSo what has it shot down? Is it the most "In theory" fanboy spec sheet best in the world or has it demonstrated this capability?.
Because we have seen the actual operation of Russian equipment that was suppose to be the latest and greatest but didn't live up to the hype.
And cannot do it. They were kind enough to sell us a few so that we could upgrade our defense systems. The Russians, and Chinese, like money.
Thats like saying I'm arrogant because I havn't bought an elephant gun but I should, even though there are zero wild elephants in my country. And I own a couple of howitzers.
How much longer do you expect the world to remain Unipolar?
I can count "Enemy" large ships on one hand. We fight as a system, so large AShM are not needed. Russia has big AShMs. And 2 large ships to shoot them. We have 10 Nimitz class carriersThe best part of repentance is the sin
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