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ISI uses KGB's standard textbook guidelines to create terror in India

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  • #31
    Originally posted by singh_21 View Post
    a few questions
    how did proliferation occur ?
    how is US bombing the living shit out of FATA ?
    why are deranged muslim jihadis blowing themselves out in the public ?
    how are attacks taking place in the garrison town of r'pindi, cultural capital L'hore, financial capital Khi and capital I'bad ?
    is the army that incompetent that they can be tasked to protect and safeguard strategic assets ?
    You raised some serious questions I'll try to answer them one by one.
    Regarding proliferation issue we have to understand the Pakistani doctrine of nuclear deterrent in order to proceed forward. When Pakistan's nuclear programme was started in late 70s Pakistan did not have enough resources to develop a nuclear weapon on it's own similarly around the same time six day war was fought between Arab and Israel in which Arabs were defeated and they were very sorry for that when they come to know that Pakistan is planning to develop nuclear weapon they came in and offer financial assistance to get this process going on one condition that Pakistan will give them this technology once they develop it in the mean time they will prepare work force which will be able to understand these things and keep in ready state.
    However due to some reason there work force took a long time to be developed and in the mean time 9/11 occurred which has changed whole global and regional dynamics bowing to pressure Libya surrendered their nuclear programme not only that they also give up their correspondence with Pakistani counterpart which later resulted in US pressure over us.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by haroon View Post
      You raised some serious questions I'll try to answer them one by one.
      Regarding proliferation issue we have to understand the Pakistani doctrine of nuclear deterrent in order to proceed forward. When Pakistan's nuclear programme was started in late 70s Pakistan did not have enough resources to develop a nuclear weapon on it's own similarly around the same time six day war was fought between Arab and Israel in which Arabs were defeated and they were very sorry for that when they come to know that Pakistan is planning to develop nuclear weapon they came in and offer financial assistance to get this process going on one condition that Pakistan will give them this technology once they develop it in the mean time they will prepare work force which will be able to understand these things and keep in ready state.
      However due to some reason there work force took a long time to be developed and in the mean time 9/11 occurred which has changed whole global and regional dynamics bowing to pressure Libya surrendered their nuclear programme not only that they also give up their correspondence with Pakistani counterpart which later resulted in US pressure over us.
      in short you threw the nuclear proliferation guidebook out of the window and ran a JV to manufacture nukes with some of the most dangerous regimes on earth.

      does that mean if 9/11 had not occurred you would have gone ahead and passed nuclear arms to the entire middle east, i mean seriously what were you thinking?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by singh_21 View Post
        a few questions
        how did proliferation occur ?
        how is US bombing the living shit out of FATA ?
        why are deranged muslim jihadis blowing themselves out in the public ?
        how are attacks taking place in the garrison town of r'pindi, cultural capital L'hore, financial capital Khi and capital I'bad ?
        is the army that incompetent that they can be tasked to protect and safeguard strategic assets ?
        As far as your question about FATA bombing is concerned then you have to realize that for centuries this area had been independent and when Durand line was created, which also could not stop the traveling from both sides by tribal people and still today this is going on, the terrain is so much confusing that a newcomer can not know which mountainous strip leads him where. Even by now the Americans have realized that bombing is not solving their problem and they have to come on negotiation table.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bengalraider View Post
          in short you threw the nuclear proliferation guidebook out of the window and ran a JV to manufacture nukes with some of the most dangerous regimes on earth.

          does that mean if 9/11 had not occurred you would have gone ahead and passed nuclear arms to the entire middle east, i mean seriously what were you thinking?
          The agreement was with only two arab countries and Iran was not one of them. To understand the whole situation think about the political condition prevailing at that time as well.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by haroon View Post
            ISI is a secret clandestine organization and just like all other secret services it’s activities are classified and I do not want to mention some of the things which I come across about ISI which can not be verified by source so I’ll stick to what I know of ISI.
            It would be interesting to note that the maximum time period for a higher office in ISI is not more then 4 – 5 years after which either they retire or get back to their original unit. This system is in place since ISI creation to ensure control over possible misuse of power by law ISI is responsible to PM only but since we have a unfortunate history of military coup the ISI became more answerable to army chief and this has led to some what disturbing organizational changes.
            ISI by no means has a flawless history compared to other big guns however they do have impeccable history in Pakistan for the protection of nuclear programme and safe guarding of strategic assets.
            You still escape the question what Pakistan got from ISI. Whatever you said can be said for Bangladesh intelligence agency as well.

            All over the world there is only one view of ISI, it is destroying Pakistan for its hatred towards other countries and religions. If today India/US/Israel attack Pakistan and divide it into parts or any international community attacks the FATA region as saying it cannot be controlled by Pakistani govt (as proposed) or Pakistan is named as a terrorist's state than it will be result of ISI/PA's activities.

            Learn from the rivalry of other countries.. India/China, US/Russia, China/US, China/Japan, Taiwan/China, Singapore/Malaysia etc etc. That is healthy, not like any international community proposing any of these countries named as a terrorist state.


            Just watch..... what is the view of an ISI chief (former) and a powerful military officer about the world and terrorism...

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juhAreG1p1c

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            • #36
              Haroon,

              "however they do have impeccable history in Pakistan for the protection of nuclear programme and safe guarding of strategic assets."

              Originally posted by haroon View Post
              Pakistan will give them this technology once they develop it
              Originally posted by haroon View Post
              Even by now the Americans have realized that bombing is not solving their problem and they have to come on negotiation table.
              Haroon IMO you have proved that ISI is doing the exact opposite.

              1. As a citizen of a state with nuke weapons, I would want my govt to take all steps to stop proliferation and ensure none of the countries in teh neighbourhood have 'em. ISI not only failed in guarding your nuclear assets but tried their best to make them as common as guns and tanks; effectively trying to strip Pakistan of its crowning glory.

              2. FATA+PATA gives Pakistan access to C.Asia, Astan, if this is not an important geographically strategic asset then what is ? And because of this location your country was able to become a de facto US protectorate. ISI has not only failed in safeguarding this asset but ensured that this asset becomes a liability.

              PS: have a look at the number of internally displaced refugees in Pakistan due to FATA bombings.
              Last edited by singh_21; 11 Dec 08,, 19:40.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by haroon View Post
                The agreement was with only two arab countries and Iran was not one of them. To understand the whole situation think about the political condition prevailing at that time as well.
                even if Iran was not one of the two does that really change anything, i mean if Saudi Arabia had nukes how would that be good for the middle east? you really have to stop insisting that nuclear proliferation is or was good thing , no matter what political conditions are giving nukes to all and sundry is never an option.

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                • #38
                  Look guys this arguement is very old that either only super powers have nuclear weapons or everybody has a right to it. Personnaly speaking I am against nuclear weapons at all because there main casualty is civilians both before and after the war but we do not have to forget that global powers are not willing to give up their nuclear weapons nor trying to reduce their arsenal in this scenario how can u think anybody would feel safe without having one.

                  The political implication of nuclear wepons in middle east is totally different Israel is only arab country that has undeclared nuclear arsenal thanks to America but when other governments wishes to have one are barred from it.
                  Think about it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by haroon View Post
                    Look guys this arguement is very old that either only super powers have nuclear weapons or everybody has a right to it. Personnaly speaking I am against nuclear weapons at all because there main casualty is civilians both before and after the war but we do not have to forget that global powers are not willing to give up their nuclear weapons nor trying to reduce their arsenal in this scenario how can u think anybody would feel safe without having one.

                    The political implication of nuclear wepons in middle east is totally different Israel is only arab country that has undeclared nuclear arsenal thanks to America but when other governments wishes to have one are barred from it.
                    Think about it.
                    so North Korea, Venezuela, Georgia, Ukraine, Cuba having nuclear weapons would make the world safer!you really need to start thinking clearly here!
                    nothing here or above justifies the policy of nuclear proliferation as practiced by Mr. A.Q khan.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by haroon View Post
                      Look guys this arguement is very old that either only super powers have nuclear weapons or everybody has a right to it.
                      And that is one of the arguments why India, Pakistan and Israel did not sign the NPT.

                      The political implication of nuclear wepons in middle east is totally different Israel is only arab country that has undeclared nuclear arsenal thanks to America but when other governments wishes to have one are barred from it.
                      Think about it.
                      The other governments should have thought about it before signing the NPT.
                      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bengalraider View Post
                        even if Iran was not one of the two does that really change anything, i mean if Saudi Arabia had nukes how would that be good for the middle east? you really have to stop insisting that nuclear proliferation is or was good thing , no matter what political conditions are giving nukes to all and sundry is never an option.
                        Morally, no countries are more entitled to any given technology than any other countries.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by GraniteForge View Post
                          Morally, no countries are more entitled to any given technology than any other countries.
                          morally speaking,yes i agree there should be no apartheid as to what technology can be exported or not; but keep in mind when talking about nuclear weapons we have to think logically not morally.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bengalraider View Post
                            morally speaking,yes i agree there should be no apartheid as to what technology can be exported or not; but keep in mind when talking about nuclear weapons we have to think logically not morally.
                            There's nothing magic about nuclear weapons. A big bomb is still a bomb. A bomb whose effect lingers is still a bomb, and nuclear bombs are hardly the only weapon with long-term effects. I believe that you have to think morally, first, about every use of a weapon, because wrongly killing one person is no less immoral than killing many.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by GraniteForge View Post
                              There's nothing magic about nuclear weapons. A big bomb is still a bomb. A bomb whose effect lingers is still a bomb, and nuclear bombs are hardly the only weapon with long-term effects. I believe that you have to think morally, first, about every use of a weapon, because wrongly killing one person is no less immoral than killing many.
                              Nuclear wepons do have a magic attached to it thats why nobody is willing to give it away.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by haroon View Post
                                Nuclear wepons do have a magic attached to it thats why nobody is willing to give it away.
                                bt u guys are willing proliferaters and so are ze chinese

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