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  • #31
    Originally posted by xinhui View Post
    haroon, welcome to WAB and to follow with your post, Pakistan did not take the Y-8 AWAC and took SAAB 2000 Off-the-Shelf instead. And from what I understand, Pakistan was not involved with the revise-engineering of Israeli Elta El/M-2032 multimode, pulse-Doppler radar installed of the Prototype 01 and 03 of FC-1 either.

    Whichs project are you referring to?
    Well, I have to eat my own word now.

    http://in.reuters.com/article/topNew...37090320081218
    Pakistan to buy Chinese AWACS to boost air defence - report


    ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan is to buy an airborne warning and control system (AWACS) from China to boost its air defences, a Pakistani newspaper reported on Thursday.

    The News newspaper said a $278 million agreement had been struck for Pakistan to get the Chinese system within four years, on a deferred payment basis.

    Pakistani defence procurement officials were not immediately available for comment.

    The report comes as relations between nuclear-armed Pakistan and India have been severely strained by last month's militant attacks in Mumbai, which India has blamed on "elements" within Pakistan.

    Pakistan would be the first country to buy the Chinese AWACS system which China only started producing in 2004, the News said.

    Pakistan signed a memorandum of understanding with China in November 2006 for long-term collaboration in defence production including development of an airborne early warning surveillance system.

    China and Pakistan have been allies for years and China is Pakistan's biggest supplier of defence equipment.

    Last month, Pakistan was granted a $7.6 billion loan by the International Monetary Fund to avert a balance of payments crisis and prevent the government defaulting on its international debt obligations.
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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    • #32
      US $ 278 Million AWACS deal struck with China:


      Islamabad, Thursday, December 18, 2008: In an effort to help the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) boost its air defence capability, Islamabad has struck a $278 million deal with Beijing to purchase a modern Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), legislators were informed here on Wednesday.

      Pakistan is said to be the first country in the region to buy the Chinese AWACS system, which Beijing started developing in 2004 after the Americans stopped the Israeli government from selling the system worth $1billion to Beijing.

      Under mounting pressure from Washington, Tel Aviv scrapped the contract to the disappointment of the Chinese, who badly needed the system for possible use against Taiwan. The details of the contract between Pakistan and China were placed before the National Assembly on Wednesday by Minister for Defence Production Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi.

      The documents placed before the National Assembly reveal that under the multi-million dollar deal, China will provide the system to Pakistan in the next four years. The most important thing from Pakistan’s perspective is that China has agreed to supply the system on “deferred” payment. The contract has been awarded to MS CETC China.

      The story of China starting the development of its own airborne warning and control system is interesting. Until 2004, Beijing had not even thought of making its own AWACS system. Just like Pakistan, China was heavily dependent on foreign countries in improving the performance of its air force.

      Information gathered from various sources revealed China launched work on its own system after the US blocked its move to develop radar surveillance aircraft. Washington even vetoed the sale of such systems China wanted to deploy in the Taiwan Strait. Military specialists said the Chinese system used domestically-produced advanced radar mounted on a Russian-made Il-76 transport aircraft.

      Chinese military technicians have been struggling to acquire AWACS-type equipment ever since the United States coerced Israel in 2000 into backing out of a $1 billion agreement on selling to China four of its Phalcon phased-array radar systems.

      The systems would have used Il-76 aircraft as a platform, but the main US concern in blocking the sale was that China would gain a military advantage over Taiwan. Moreover, under the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act, the US government pledged to help Taiwan defend itself against a possible Chinese attack, meaning the US forces could become involved, should fighting erupt.

      For the same reason, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) air force leaders were determined to acquire such planes. After the 2000 Israeli fiasco, the PLA made it a matter of pride to prove to the Americans they could not be denied AWACS.

      Initially, China turned to Russia, its traditional source of military equipment. Beijing concluded a deal to buy four Beriev A-50 Mainstay radar planes, which are roughly the Russian equivalent of the US Air Force’s E-3 Sentry AWACS. The purchase was believed to be the first phase of an agreement for eight Russian aircraft.

      At the same time, Chinese scientists were working on their own radar equipment. It is not known whether the Russian aircraft were ever delivered, which would have provided a look at the technology, or whether the technicians obtained help from Israeli or Russian counterparts.
      http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story...l.asp?Id=19041
      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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      • #33
        India tends to solve the problems by military force.And it's not a good method.
        Last edited by kaka; 23 Dec 08,, 08:20.

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        • #34
          Say what?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by kaka View Post
            India tends to solve the problems by military force.And it's not a good method.
            What problems, specifically, are you referring to?
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by kaka View Post
              India tends to solve the problems by military force.And it's not a good method.
              Really? Pls enlighten us, how, where and when India arbitrarily used military force to solve bi-lateral issues.
              A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by xinhui View Post
                US $ 278 Million AWACS deal struck with China:
                I thought they already bought some Swedish AWACS.
                I guess PAF wants parity and buy AWACS on full bodied jets?

                Swedish AWACS aircraft built for Pakistan rolled out

                Thu, Apr 3 05:31 PM

                Islamabad, Apr 3 (PTI) The first of the five Swedish airborne early warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft being built for Pakistan has been rolled out and will be delivered to the country by next year. In a statement issued today, the PAF described the rolling out of the Saab 2000 Erieye aircraft before Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed in Sweden as a "major landmark" in its airborne early warning programme.

                "The acquisition of airborne early warning capability by the PAF would greatly enhance its defensive capability and is an essential part of its modernisation efforts," Ahmed said. He added that the achievement of airborne early warning capability will provide a much needed boost to Pakistan's security needs.

                Swedish defence major Saab will deliver the first of five airborne early warning and control system aircraft to Pakistan by next year. After being rolled out in Sweden, the first aircraft will be prepared for flight trials by the yearend after being equipped with a full suite of mission systems, including radars and avionics.

                The aircraft will be put through trials before being delivered to the PAF. Pakistan signed a contract with Saab for the AWACS in June 2006 and the aircraft have been specially developed to PAF's requirements. The aircraft will also be equipped with electronic surveillance support systems for intelligence gathering and a full set of defensive aids.

                The project merges Saab's 2000 turboprop aircraft with Ericsson's Erieye radar system. Pakistan is also negotiating with China for acquiring additional AWACS.

                -PTI.
                *Edit - Ok, the plan was to always get it from China, after the crash of Chinese prototype not much was heard about their AWACS. It is still turbo prop mounted system and does not have the endurance of IAF AWACS. I guess Pakistan will be using quantity to negate the advantage of IAF.

                Chinese AWACS:
                Last edited by Jay; 23 Dec 08,, 15:35.
                A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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                • #38
                  *Edit - Ok, the plan was to always get it from China, after the crash of Chinese prototype not much was heard about their AWACS. It is still turbo prop mounted system and does not have the endurance of IAF AWACS. I guess Pakistan will be using quantity to negate the advantage of IAF.
                  actually, the Chinese AWAC problem is relatively open (because of the possible sales) and there are dual tracks in progress, one is the Il-76 based and two are Y-8 based (you photo is one of the 6 known in service)

                  As for perform and endurance, I am no expert, but it is known that they have a different mission requirement.
                  “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                  • #39
                    I think this probably the plane xinhui was talking of.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #40
                      Thanks and in return.....Blue Man Group, Chinese style.
                      Attached Files
                      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                      • #41
                        Source: http://www.india-defence.com/reports/4114
                        China Tested Nuclear Weapons for Pakistan in 1990: Thomas Reed
                        Dated 3/1/2009

                        China had tested for Pakistan its first nuclear bomb as early as in 1990, enabling Islamabad to respond within weeks to the Indian atomic tests eight years later, a top US nuclear expert has claimed.

                        "The Chinese did a massive training of Pakistani scientists, brought them to China for lectures, even gave them the design of the CHIC-4 device, which was a weapon that was easy to build a model for export," former US Air Force Secretary Thomas Reed told American news magazine 'US News and World Report'.

                        Reed, who had worked at Livermore National Laboratory as a weapons designer, had co-authored a new book -- The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and Its Proliferation -- with Danny Stillman, the former director of the technical intelligence division at Los Alamos National Laboratory. The book makes a scathing indictment of China, alleging that it intentionally proliferated nuclear technology to "risky regimes", particularly Pakistan, the magazine said.

                        The Chinese gave the nuclear technology to Pakistan as "India was China's enemy and Pakistan was India's enemy," Reed told the magazine. "Under Pakistani President Benazir Bhutto, the country built its first functioning nuclear weapon. We believe that during Bhutto's term in office, the People's Republic of China tested Pakistan's first bomb for her in 1990," he said.

                        He said there are numerous reasons to believe this, including the design of the weapon and information gathered from discussions with Chinese nuclear experts. "That's why the Pakistanis were so quick to respond to the Indian nuclear tests in 1998. It only took them two weeks and three days," Reed said.
                        Copyright © 2009 India Defence. All Rights Reserved.
                        well that takes co-operation to a whole new level.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by macherjhol View Post
                          well that takes co-operation to a whole new level.
                          Pakistan had nuclear warheads in 1987 and threatened to use if india's military exercise going on across border changes to attack on Pakistan. The nuclear enrichment was around 60 - 80% in 1984 which shows that programme was going on for a while and did not happen over night.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by haroon View Post
                            Pakistan had nuclear warheads in 1987 and threatened to use if india's military exercise going on across border changes to attack on Pakistan. The nuclear enrichment was around 60 - 80% in 1984 which shows that programme was going on for a while and did not happen over night.

                            Oh, so without a single test of those Nucler warheads, Pakistan threaten India to use Nukes just because there was a military exercise. That's great discovery in itself.

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                            • #44
                              Check out the history dude the political scenario was quite different at that time. Hot tests are essential part to determine efficacy of nuclear capablity but cold tests are continously conducted to keep the data updated. Check out the link below regarding operation Brasstacks.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Brasstacks

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                              • #45
                                Considering Musharraf stated that nukes were not ready during Kargil, it is highly doubtful that Pakistan was ready for nuclear war in the 80s.

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