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Thread: Russia claims China backing in Georgia conflict

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    Russia claims China backing in Georgia conflict action

    AFP: Russia claims China backing in Georgia conflict

    1 day ago

    DUSHANBE (AFP) — China and four Central Asian nations signed a statement Thursday supporting Russia's role in the Caucasus but also expressing "deep concern" over the Georgia conflict and calling for a negotiated settlement.

    In a joint statement, the leaders of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan said they "support the active role of Russia in assisting peace and cooperation in the region."

    The six in the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) also "express their deep concern over the recent tensions surrounding the South Ossetia question and call for the sides to peacefully resolve existing problems through dialogue."

    Echoing language used in the West over the conflict, a portion of the statement also said the summit members supported the principle of "territorial integrity" of states.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the statement showed a "united position" on the Georgia conflict, and Kremlin officials indicated they were happy with its phrasing.

    China's foreign ministry reiterated, however, its concern over Russia's decision to recognise two breakaway Georgian provinces as independent states, and experts were split on how to interpret the Dushanbe statement.

    Unequivocal Chinese support would be a diplomatic coup for Russia, which has found itself largely isolated since its military move into Georgia on August 8.

    "It's not resounding support for Russia," commented Macha Lipman of the Carnegie Moscow Center, the Russian office of a US-based think tank. "Every country took into account their interests."

    Fyodor Lukyanov, a respected independent analyst who edits the magazine Russia in Global Policy, differed.

    "The SCO statement is a great victory by Russia, which has so far been in a vacuum" over Georgia. "They openly demonstrated their support for Russia in its standoff with Georgia."

    Russia sent forces into Georgia in response to Tbilisi's offensive to retake South Ossetia, and hundreds of troops remain in what Moscow is calling a "peacekeeping" mission but Georgia has denounced as an occupation force.

    Medvedev asserted that the summit had sent a clear message to the West, which has sharply criticised Moscow.

    "I hope it will serve as a serious signal to those who try to turn black into white and justify this aggression," he said.

    The SCO statement made no explicit mention of Russia's decision to recognise the rebel provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states.

    Speaking before the statement was signed, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang told reporters in Beijing: "China expresses concern over the latest developments in the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    "We are fully aware of the complicated history and reality of the issues of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and given our consistent position on such issues, we hope the relevant countries properly resolve the issues through dialogue and consultation."

    China, which is battling separatist claims on its own territory, called for "dialogue and consultation".

    The president of energy-rich Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev, sounded a note more in favor of Moscow.

    After the summit, Nazarbayev said he related "with understanding to all the measures taken by Russia" when he held a one-on-one meeting with Medvedev.

    "I would very much like international opinion to move toward peace and understanding, without constant announcements about the Cold War," he said.

    Belarus, which is closely tied to Moscow, said Russia "had no moral" choice but to recognise the independence of the two Georgian regions.

    Russian news agencies later quoted the Belarussian ambassador to Moscow as saying Belarus may "soon" recognise the two Georgian provinces.

    A statement from the Belarus presidency called for another Moscow-dominated regional grouping, the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), to make a joint statement on the conflict at its meeting on September 5.

    The CSTO comprises Russia, Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

    In the face of Western criticism, the Kremlin has angrily argued that Russia used military force only in response to a Georgian attack against South Ossetia, where tens of thousands of Russian citizens live.
    Last edited by Nauticus; 30 Aug 08, at 04:43.

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    US welcomes China's apparent refusal to back Russian action

    AFP: US welcomes China's apparent refusal to back Russian action

    1 day ago

    WASHINGTON (AFP) — The United States on Thursday welcomed China's apparent reluctance to support Russia's action recognizing the independence of two Georgian secessionist regions.

    "It was not what I would call an endorsement of Russia's recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia," State Department spokesman Robert Wood said, referring to a joint statement by China and other members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) regional summit in the Tajik capital Dushanbe.

    China and four Central Asian nations voiced support Thursday for Russia's "active role" in resolving the conflict in Georgia.

    In the joint declaration, the six countries called for respect for the concept of "territorial integrity" -- although they did not specifically refer to Georgia.

    The West accuses Russia of violating Georgia's territorial integrity in recognizing the independence of the rebel territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    "I think the fact that you haven't seen some countries come forth and recognize these two parts of Georgia's territory, is a significant sign," Wood told reporters.

    "Clearly there is unhappiness at what Russia did and most countries think that Georgia's territorial integrity must be upheld," he said.

    China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan set up the SCO in 2001 to counter NATO influence in the strategic Central Asia region.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev met Chinese President Hu Jintao in Dushanbe on the eve of the summit and informed him of the situation in Georgia.

    Beijing also said Wednesday it was "concerned" and called for "dialogue and consultation" to resolve the issue.

    Medvedev had claimed backing from China and the four Central Asian states for Russia's actions in Georgia and said their support should send a "serious signal" to the West.

    "I am sure that the united position of the SCO member states will have international resonance," Medvedev said.
    Last edited by Nauticus; 30 Aug 08, at 04:43.

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    Absolute...for want of a nastier word; propaganda, but total make believe.

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    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Propaganda from which sector?

    Have you read the Chinese media?

    I sure would want to know what is the reality and how more dangerous this world is to become.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

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    I read Chinese interest Ray Sir; they will not give up Tibet and their other 'provinces' and to back Russia in this would open them to the same problem as Georgia. There is a thread elsewhere about this I believe.

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    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I read Chinese interest Ray Sir; they will not give up Tibet and their other 'provinces' and to back Russia in this would open them to the same problem as Georgia. There is a thread elsewhere about this I believe.
    Secession is what Tibet and Xinjaing wants.

    China is holding onto them just as Russia holding onto Ossetia South and Abkhazia.

    There is the commonality!!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Señor Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    ... or India onto Jammu and Kashmir ?
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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    Anyways, the SCO statement to me sounded like one could read it either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    ... or India onto Jammu and Kashmir ?
    Care to elaborate on your understanding of entire J&K issue. India in not holding on to J&K. J&K is a part of India, the number of people who want to secede from India is a small insignificant number when compared to the entire population of that region. Also, the provocations provided by Pakistan is the sole reason why these people would want to secede from India. So there are no comparisons between Tibet. As opposed to Tibet India did not invade J&K but rather the then ruler of J&K had come asking for Indian help which India provided after it agreed to be part of India forever.

    Request you to please read up more before you start making comparisons. The J&K's accession documents clearly states the reasons and the circumstances which led to J&K being part of India.

    However, thanks to you, its time to discuss the oft neglected Historical perspective of J&K. I think I will start a new thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumku View Post
    people who want to secede from India is a small insignificant number when compared to the entire population of that region. ... India did not invade J&K but rather the then ruler of J&K had come asking for Indian help which India provided after it agreed to be part of India forever.
    That reminds me pretty much the situation with Caucasus region and say, Ukraine, which begged Russian Empire to protect them against the outside enemies; and they got the protection they asked for, or at least let Russia fight in wars instead of them. Nowadays there are insignificant amount of people, who want the further isolation from Russia.

    So, people do not change with the centuries or geographic locations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Injecteer View Post
    That reminds me pretty much the situation with Caucasus region and say, Ukraine, which begged Russian Empire to protect them against the outside enemies; and they got the protection they asked for, or at least let Russia fight in wars instead of them. Nowadays there are insignificant amount of people, who want the further isolation from Russia.

    So, people do not change with the centuries or geographic locations.
    What?? Ukraine was forcibly incorporated into USSR - they claimed Independance in 1918!
    Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    When did they let Russians fight for them? 1941? No - they fought alongside their Soviet allies (though some apparently at first welcomed the Germans as 'liberators'). They suffered the same as did Russia from the German policies. In the area where my family comes from in (now) Western Ukraine - pre 1945 Poland - the Jewish community and the Poles had to fight Russians first.

    This is not the thread to discuss this further but this is historicaly incorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    Secession is what Tibet and Xinjaing wants.

    China is holding onto them just as Russia holding onto Ossetia South and Abkhazia.

    There is the commonality!!
    I believe the Chinese are concerned that supporting Russia's actions could legitimize the concept that another country could use the pretext of Tibetan and Xingianese instability to intervene in China and wrench them from it.

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    Señor Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumku View Post
    Care to elaborate on your understanding of entire J&K issue. India in not holding on to J&K. J&K is a part of India, the number of people who want to secede from India is a small insignificant number when compared to the entire population of that region. Also, the provocations provided by Pakistan is the sole reason why these people would want to secede from India. So there are no comparisons between Tibet. As opposed to Tibet India did not invade J&K but rather the then ruler of J&K had come asking for Indian help which India provided after it agreed to be part of India forever.

    Request you to please read up more before you start making comparisons. The J&K's accession documents clearly states the reasons and the circumstances which led to J&K being part of India.

    However, thanks to you, its time to discuss the oft neglected Historical perspective of J&K. I think I will start a new thread.
    yes, that might deserve an explanation. My knowledge about the situation in J&K is unfortunately very limited. We don´t know the number of seccessionists in Tibet. Nor in Kashmir. It was meant to point that besides China , India has similar problem after the whole Kosovo-to-S.Ossetia debacle. I asked in previous thread how India has reacted to the whole situation, the answer was that basicly India has kept very quiet. A smart move maybe, but it shows the concerns of the Goverment.

    Oh, and the small minority part - every freedom/liberation/rebellion/seccessionist/etc. movement has been started by a very small group of individuals. The american revolution was minority´s riot, so was Gandhi´s movement etc.
    It was Raj´s decision to join India, not majority´s of the population, which wanted to join Pakistan, right? I´m at work , so i can´t use google, but that´s what i remember.
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    yes, that might deserve an explanation. My knowledge about the situation in J&K is unfortunately very limited. We don´t know the number of seccessionists in Tibet. Nor in Kashmir. It was meant to point that besides China , India has similar problem after the whole Kosovo-to-S.Ossetia debacle. I asked in previous thread how India has reacted to the whole situation, the answer was that basicly India has kept very quiet. A smart move maybe, but it shows the concerns of the Goverment.

    Oh, and the small minority part - every freedom/liberation/rebellion/seccessionist/etc. movement has been started by a very small group of individuals. The american revolution was minority´s riot, so was Gandhi´s movement etc.
    It was Raj´s decision to join India, not majority´s of the population, which wanted to join Pakistan, right? I´m at work , so i can´t use google, but that´s what i remember.
    You state your knowledge is limited.

    Fair enough.

    It is time you and the Western folks understood Kashmir and not talking through your hat.

    You come ridiculous when you compare Kashmir with the American revolution or with Gandhi’s Quit India.

    Have you read Kashmiri history or even your American politicians? First of all, you are enamoured with your thoughts and you are shallow!

    Since you all are racists and only believe the ‘white’ word as the Gospel, since Black, brown and yellow are untermenschens, do read the white man’s treatises – Vale of Kashmir by Lawrence and Travails by Moorecraft. They are white and British to boot and so I presume that would cut through your make belief of what shallow US politicians have to say.

    Sheik Abdullah, who was anti the Hindu Maharaja of Kashmir insisted on joining India, while the Hindu Maharaja was deluding that he had his Kingdom all safe and tucked up!

    It was a Moslem and he was indeed the Voice of Kashmir since he was called Sher e Kashmir (Lion of Kashmir) who forced the Accession with India.

    Time you shallow Joes smelt the coffee!

    I don’t know if you read my posts. More than India, Pakistan wants no independence! With Kashmir gone and also the Northern Area, Pakistan is a postage stamp.

    If NWFP, Blochistan, Sindh and these areas are independent, then what is Pakistan?

    Just Punjab – landlocked craphole!

    Understand before you offer comments!

    Even if you are work, does it mean that you work in an organisation that leaves the brains at home?

    And don't use office time for personal stuff like being on the Web.

    That is cheating!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Señor Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    You state your knowledge is limited.

    Fair enough.

    It is time you and the Western folks understood Kashmir and not talking through your hat.

    You come ridiculous when you compare Kashmir with the American revolution or with Gandhi’s Quit India.

    Have you read Kashmiri history or even your American politicians? First of all, you are enamoured with your thoughts and you are shallow!

    Since you all are racists and only believe the ‘white’ word as the Gospel, since Black, brown and yellow are untermenschens, do read the white man’s treatises – Vale of Kashmir by Lawrence and Travails by Moorecraft. They are white and British to boot and so I presume that would cut through your make belief of what shallow US politicians have to say.

    Sheik Abdullah, who was anti the Hindu Maharaja of Kashmir insisted on joining India, while the Hindu Maharaja was deluding that he had his Kingdom all safe and tucked up!

    It was a Moslem and he was indeed the Voice of Kashmir since he was called Sher e Kashmir (Lion of Kashmir) who forced the Accession with India.

    Time you shallow Joes smelt the coffee!

    I don’t know if you read my posts. More than India, Pakistan wants no independence! With Kashmir gone and also the Northern Area, Pakistan is a postage stamp.

    If NWFP, Blochistan, Sindh and these areas are independent, then what is Pakistan?

    Just Punjab – landlocked craphole!

    Understand before you offer comments!

    Even if you are work, does it mean that you work in an organisation that leaves the brains at home?

    And don't use office time for personal stuff like being on the Web.

    That is cheating!
    Point taken . But Ray, Sir - I have about 2 hours each day to cram all my web activities into it. It´s just not enough time. Therefore i take a shortcut and try to catch it up on WAB. Although catching up on your post alone is a full time job. So i´m taking my sketchy knowledge and trying to chew through the posts you produce in one day, to incorporate the knowledge i get from there. I don´t necessarily agree with them, but at least i try to read through them. The exclamation marks and literal style makes it harder to read, but i chew my way through usually.
    And i take the point about being shallow - i know it. I was kicked out of home at age 19, after my time in army, and went to work. And i´m still working and have not much spare time to catch up with situation in Kashmir.
    As of me being racist - it´s something like being a coward or something else- i don´t know before something happens that would bring out the best or worst in a person. I am feeling sympathy towards India, for no reason actually . It just is somehow - a sympathy nothing more , nothing less.

    And for us, common folk, please ascend from you Mt.Olympus and take pity on our meager souls. For all it´s population and size and economy India still is something very far and distant, could be from another planet. When i look around i see no sign of India . There are probably couple of dozens people from sub-continent, 2 indian restraunts and in some shops they maybe sell some fragrances or cloth, but besides that India is completely invisible.
    Last time India was in news was during Kargil war , when absolute majority of people watched here worriedly as 2 nuclear powers fought for a couple mountaintops. ´Silly´ would be the most polite way to describe the conflict in people´s opinions.
    with full respect , Ville

    edited to add - my job at the moment is ´being at alert´. No cheating. But limited web-access
    Last edited by BD1; 31 Aug 08, at 09:24.
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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