WSJ Reporter On Russian Invasion Aftermath: "How The War Really Started"

[Equilibrium]

"I got a call from the minister of defense that Russian tanks, some 200, were massing to enter Tskhinvali from North Ossetia," Mr. Saakashvili told me. "I ignored it at first, but reports kept coming in that they had begun to move forward. In fact, they had mobilized reserves several days ahead of time."

. "We subsequently found out from pilots we shot down," said Mr. Saakashvili, "that they'd been called up three days before from places like Moscow. We had intelligence coming in ahead of time but we just couldn't believe it. Also, in recent weeks, the separatists had intensified artillery barrages and were shooting our soldiers. I'd kept telling our guys to stay calm. Actually we had most of our troops down near Abkhazia where we expected the real trouble to start. I can tell you that if we'd intended to attack, we'd have withdrawn our best-trained forces from Iraq up front."

But two factors above all sealed Georgia's fate this summer, it seems. In April, NATO postponed the decision to admit Georgia into the organization until its next summit in October. Mr. Saakashvili believes Moscow felt it had one last chance to pre-empt Georgia's joining NATO.

Finally, he says, the invasion had to be done before the situation in Iraq got any better and freed up U.S. forces to act elsewhere -- a matter not simply of U.S. weakness but of increasing U.S. strength. "If America thinks it is too weak to do anything about Georgia," said Mr. Saakashvili, "you should understand how the Russians see it, how much Moscow respects a strong United States -- or at least a U.S. that believes in its own strength."

How the Georgian Conflict Really Started - WSJ.com

[Garry]

another sample of how biased and unballanced is American media. The guy invents whole new story and reporter does not even questions or doubts in his story.... it directly contradicts to everything he stated!!!

I remember his statement on August 8 - if we learn that Russian troops have crossed the border we will announce war on Russia....

This looser, who put his whole nation of stupid bet, if he knew that 58th went to SO he would have never dared to be so stupid as to bomb Thinvalli instead of preparing defenses near Gory.

Why US so notoriously likes this pathetic guy?.... this really makes US media look quite rediculous!!!

[Centreri]

It's Saakashvili. What do you expect him to say? He didn't even mention the offensive of South Ossetia. No one can dispute that that happened and that the target was a civilian city.

At any rate, even if they had mobilized ahead of time, all it meant is that the Kremlin had forseen that this could happen. Nothing suspicious there.

[Officer of Engineers]

Why US so notoriously likes this pathetic guy?.... this really makes US media look quite rediculous!!!

Garry, calm down. You're in a forum full of professionals. We know how to distinquish between propaganda and real actions. You will note that only after the Iraq War was over that we finally learned what truly happened to 3-7Cav.

We're willing to wait for the info. There's a lot to be learned yet.

[Garry]

Garry, calm down. You're in a forum full of professionals. We know how to distinquish between propaganda and real actions. You will note that only after the Iraq War was over that we finally learned what truly happened to 3-7Cav.

We're willing to wait for the info. There's a lot to be learned yet.

Agreed. Both Russian and USA media is full of propaganda. For example both WSJ and Komsomolskaya Pravda on the same scale of brainwashing... or Fox and Russian 1st channel.

I am so sorry I can not read georgian language and read what their soldiers post on their forums... they must be sharing what happened and when right now!

[Blademaster]

If nothing else, this proves that Saakashvili is an idiot for provoking a bear to attack. He had reports that Russia was ready to attack and he gave Russia every excuse to attack Georgia. What a fvcking dolt.

[Shuriff]

Agreed. Both Russian and USA media is full of propaganda. For example both WSJ and Komsomolskaya Pravda on the same scale of brainwashing... or Fox and Russian 1st channel.

I am so sorry I can not read georgian language and read what their soldiers post on their forums... they must be sharing what happened and when right now!

well, actually yesterday there's been a large post of what georgian soldiers think about it. In short - they are angry and feel betrayed. From this one footsoldier perspective - GA won every battle they fought, and he actually believes this, yet he admits that 4th inf brigade is no more. there are couple of legends which are already popular among georgian soldiers. for example they actually think that they fought against entire 58th army, that they've shot down 20 planes, etc. thera are several interesting points we can get from there, and hopefully as time passes we'll get even more, but overall - normal reaction of a soldiers who lost the war. German soldiers after WWI and WWII, Finnish soldiers after Winter war, or Russian soldiers in the beginning of WWI or after first chechen war - they're all pretty much the same. they've fought bravely, they had their successes, but they still lost the war, so now they feel betrayed by their country. And official Georgian point of view that they originally intended to 'internationalize' i.e. lose the war - its not helping soldiers feel better. This way they feel betrayed even more.

[Garry]

well, actually yesterday there's been a large post of what georgian soldiers think about it. In short - they are angry and feel betrayed. From this one footsoldier perspective - GA won every battle they fought, and he actually believes this, yet he admits that 4th inf brigade is no more. there are couple of legends which are already popular among georgian soldiers. for example they actually think that they fought against entire 58th army, that they've shot down 20 planes, etc. thera are several interesting points we can get from there, and hopefully as time passes we'll get even more, but overall - normal reaction of a soldiers who lost the war. German soldiers after WWI and WWII, Finnish soldiers after Winter war, or Russian soldiers in the beginning of WWI or after first chechen war - they're all pretty much the same. they've fought bravely, they had their successes, but they still lost the war, so now they feel betrayed by their country. And official Georgian point of view that they originally intended to 'internationalize' i.e. lose the war - its not helping soldiers feel better. This way they feel betrayed even more.

Privet, very interesting. Drop me the link where I can read this sort of things. Thank you for summary!

[Garry]

If nothing else, this proves that Saakashvili is an idiot for provoking a bear to attack. He had reports that Russia was ready to attack and he gave Russia every excuse to attack Georgia. What a fvcking dolt.

He is idiot, or liar and idiot, I don't know what is better. In Cold War times in late 70es Soviet Union made many mistakes in picking up its pupets.... many were just idiots.... USA on the opposite were doing good job.

Now I think it is reversed... no proper work was done before USA put such a huge bet on the guy who is so unstable and such a gambler

[Doktor]

I wander when we'll see one stand up interview about what happened there - from Georgians. And still they are winning the PR war. I am shocked how can "free world" chew and digest all this kakaphonia. Either they don't care or they don't remember. I'll bet on the first one.

[Shuriff]

Privet, very interesting. Drop me the link where I can read this sort of things. Thank you for summary!

howdy!
try searching vif2ne.ru they are not the only source i'm using, but imho they've got best collection of info&comments on this particular conflict. I highly recommend it to you

[Doktor]

Sir vif2.ne is not opening here, is it correct address?

[Shuriff]

He is idiot, or liar and idiot, I don't know what is better. In Cold War times in late 70es Soviet Union made many mistakes in picking up its pupets.... many were just idiots.... USA on the opposite were doing good job.

hmmm. i think i'll dare to argue that, everyone has made investments in thier own SOBs during cold war. At least Saddam, Pol Pot and Bin Laden come to my mind. Yet its undoubtful, that soviet policy became quite dogmatic from late 60s, and dogmatic pocilies tend to be ineffective.

[Squall]

He is idiot, or liar and idiot, I don't know what is better. In Cold War times in late 70es Soviet Union made many mistakes in picking up its pupets.... many were just idiots.... USA on the opposite were doing good job.

Diamond is puppets' best friend not belief.

[bengalraider]

He is idiot, or liar and idiot, I don't know what is better. In Cold War times in late 70es Soviet Union made many mistakes in picking up its pupets.... many were just idiots.... USA on the opposite were doing good job.

Now I think it is reversed... no proper work was done before USA put such a huge bet on the guy who is so unstable and such a gambler

srry but during the cold war neither the united states or the soviet union made any good decisions regarding which j**ks to support such decisions were made only on basis of blind ideological & political alliances and were rather born of a confluence of interests not from any real background on whether the puppet was really capable of even doing a half-baked job,thinking of american puppets some infamous names come to mind notably saddam hussein, manuel noriega,gen. augusto pinochet,gen zia of pakistan,osama bin laden most of these puppets have since been put to sleep by their former master .