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  • US anger at Russian Georgia vote

    US anger at Russian Georgia vote


    US President George W Bush has urged Russia not to recognise Georgia's two breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.

    Mr Bush's comments came after Russia's parliament passed a non-binding motion calling on President Dmitry Medvedev to support the enclaves' independence bid.

    The US has said such recognition would be contrary to international law and has pledged to stand by Georgia.

    Russia and Georgia fought a brief war this month over the two provinces.

    Moscow launched a counter-attack after Tbilisi tried to retake South Ossetia from rebels by military force.

    The US and a number of Western governments have backed Georgia, sending aid and issuing strongly-worded statements.

    In a statement, Mr Bush called on Russia's leadership to "meet its commitments and not recognise these separatist regions".

    "The United States will continue to stand with the people of Georgia and their democracy and to support its sovereignty and territorial integrity," he said.

    The US state department has said recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law".

    Leaders from Germany, the UK and Italy also expressed concern that the vote would raise tensions further in the Caucasus.

    Meanwhile Alexander Stubb, the head of the European security organisation, the OSCE, has accused Russia of trying to empty South Ossetia of Georgians.

    He told the BBC that OSCE military observers were trying to visit as much of South Ossetia as possible to clarify the situation.

    "They are clearly trying to empty southern Ossetia from Georgians, which I don't think goes by any of the books that we deal with in international relations," he said.

    Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have effectively been independent since breaking away in the early 1990s.

    While they have enjoyed Russian economic and diplomatic support, and military protection, no foreign state has yet recognised them as independent states.

    Peacekeeper disagreement

    On the ground, most of Russia's forces pulled out of Georgia last Friday. But some troops continue to operate near the Black Sea port of Poti, south of Abkhazia, where Russia says it will carry out regular inspections of cargo, fuelling speculation that Moscow is imposing an economic stranglehold on Georgia.

    Troops also continue to operate in buffer zones that Russia controversially set up within undisputed Georgian territory.

    France's President Nicolas Sarkozy said at the weekend that, under the terms of the ceasefire he had helped broker, troops from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) would move into these buffer zones.

    But senior Russian officials now say they never agreed to allow international peacekeepers to patrol in the zones, and also say they will not allow aerial reconnaissance over the zones.

    'Hitler' comparison

    The upper house, Federation Council, voted 130-0 to call on President Medvedev to support the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

    The lower house, the State Duma, approved the same resolution in a 447-0 vote shortly afterwards.

    The Federation Council speaker, Sergei Mironov, said both Abkhazia and South Ossetia had all the necessary attributes of independent states.

    During the debate in the two chambers, several speakers compared Georgia's military action in South Ossetia with Hitler's World War II invasion of the Soviet Union.

    Both Abkhaz leader Sergei Bagapsh and his South Ossetian counterpart, Eduard Kokoity, addressed the Russian lawmakers before the votes, urging them to recognise the independence of the two regions.

    "It's a historic day for Abkhazia... and South Ossetia," Mr Bagapsh said, adding that Abkhazia would never again be part of Georgia.

    Mr Kokoity thanked Russia for supporting South Ossetia during the conflict with Georgia, describing President Medvedev's move to deploy troops as "a courageous, timely and correct" decision.

    He said that South Ossetia and Abkhazia had more rights to become recognised nations than Kosovo, which declared independence from Serbia earlier this year with support from the US and much of the European Union.

    Both houses of the Russian parliament are dominated by allies of Mr Medvedev and Mr Putin.

    The lawmakers interrupted their summer holidays for extraordinary sittings, formally called at the request of separatist leaders in the two Georgian provinces.

    In a televised address, President Saakashvili dismissed the vote, saying: "Nobody can legalise the annexation of the Georgian territories."

    While both Abkhazia and South Ossetia have been pushing for formal independence since the break-up of the Soviet Union in the 1990s, Russia's official line at least until now has been similar to that of the West, the BBC's Humphrey Hawksley reports from Moscow.

    But in March the State Duma passed a resolution supporting independence should Georgia invade or rush to join Nato.

    After Monday's votes, the bill will be sent to the Kremlin for approval.

    Analysts say the Kremlin might delay its decision while it carries out wider negotiations with the West on the crisis.
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  • #2
    Let us wait and see what Medvedev does (or is ordered to do). Russia may feel that it has made it's point and alow the status be internationaly negotiated.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by snapper View Post
      Let us wait and see what Medvedev does (or is ordered to do). Russia may feel that it has made it's point and alow the status be internationaly negotiated.
      Well, he just recognized both SO and Abkhazian independence.

      Comment


      • #4
        "President Dmitry Medvedev has declared that Russia formally recognises the independence of the breakaway Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

        The move follows a vote in both houses of parliament on Monday, which called on Moscow to recognise the regions.

        The move, in defiance of a specific plea from the US president, provoked a wave of protest from Western countries." BBC

        BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Russia recognises Georgian rebels

        Apparently so...

        Comment


        • #5
          Now what? Russia will not recognize Kosovo and wont let em in the UN and wherever else, US will do the same to SO and Abkhazia... poor lil nation will be sentenced the destiny of N.Cyprus
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Shuriff View Post
            Well, he just recognized both SO and Abkhazian independence.

            How can Russia recognize the independence of a people who hold Russian passports? This is a prelude to annexation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              How can Russia recognize the independence of a people who hold Russian passports? This is a prelude to annexation.
              So far it seems they're gonna stay de jure independent. Remains to be seen, of course.

              Comment


              • #8
                The Goergians have accused them of annexation - see BBC link above.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can't be recognized as independent and being annexed by the same party now can you?
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It would seem to me that 'recognising independance' cannot constitute 'annexation' without some risk of terminological self contradiction! Perhaps these phrases don't translate well...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      It would seem to me that 'recognising independance' cannot constitute 'annexation' without some risk of terminological self contradiction! Perhaps these phrases don't translate well...
                      my point exacetly
                      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        How can Russia recognize the independence of a people who hold Russian passports? This is a prelude to annexation.
                        You read my mind Zraver.

                        Now the Russians are caught in a potential paradox. If they allow the SO and Abkhaz people to rescind their Russian citizenship for their independence, then that just begs the question that if minorities under Russian sovereignty openly rescind their Russian citizenship, will the Russians recognize that? I think not.

                        Russian ambitions will now be nakedly obvious. Ukraine and the near abroad nations are now faced with a stark ultimatum: either accept Russian influence in their disputed internal conflicts and disputes and avoid a direct showdown with superior Russian military power or accept Russian influence and preponderance over their national policies.

                        The only way to begin to meet the challenge will be to create domestic socio-economic and political cohesion in these nations and enhance their military capabilities to increase the costs of potential Russian interventions and invasions and prevent separatist movements from becoming so powerful as to provide a pretext for Russian support. Any US/ EU/NATO reaction will depend on how well they address this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is such fun!

                          Kosovo recognised and now the breakaway provinces!

                          Which country is next.

                          The brave new and dangerous world!

                          Too bad!

                          When the superpowers fight, others benefit.


                          "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                          I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                          HAKUNA MATATA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What worries me is that with Russia's economy bouncing the charts with their oil and also using oil as a weapon, Russians are restoring their disgraced image in the world as a failed state.

                            This psyche is most dangerous and this appears to be what they are trying to overcome.

                            South America is getting "socialist" one by one. Things don't appear good!


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm not sure I share your gloomy analysis Ray Sir; certainly those who are traditionaly pro-Russian will be heartened but more people are now scared of Russia than were until this started so in the end it may constitute a loss to Russian prestige.

                              Yes for all intents and purposes Kosovo and Albania were won for the West and Abkhazia and SO for Russia. Not a bad trade when there was realy little we could do, nor should have done, on the Russian border.

                              The greater problem may come in Ukraine with cessation of perhaps Crimea to Russia and even Lviv to Poland (?).

                              In the long term while the Russian economy is riding high on world oil prices the greater emphasis remains in the stabalisation of the Middle East which should gradualy relax fears for oil supply from that area. Even so the oil trade is by definition co - dependant. The Russiand need the Eurpeans to buy it just as much as we need to buy it.

                              Even futher in the future the demographic decline of Russia is seriously alarming for her leaders:

                              "The author concludes that Russia must maintain a steady and high net immigration of at least 500,000 persons/year in order to preserve the present size of population or to attain population growth. The author warns that reports of "demographic tragedy" or "extinction of the Russian people" are politically motivated by anti-reformists who view past reforms as responsible for demographic changes. In fact, demographic catastrophe may occur if reforms are delayed"

                              Family, fertility, and demographic dynamics in Russia: analysis and forecast..

                              At the moment more people are leaving Russia than entering I read but need to source that again.

                              This immigration trend is of course the opposite both for the US and Europe, while other countries such as your own have growing a population anyway.

                              While Russia may continue to exercise some control over oil and gas in the next 30 years unless serious attention is payed to her internal problems they simply will not have the manpower in 30 years to do much. The short term is makes Russia look big. In the long term they may be better of joining the EU (Euew :().

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