View Poll Results: In current Russia-Georgia conflict, who is right?

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  • Russia

    82 53.95%
  • Georgia

    51 33.55%
  • Other

    19 12.50%
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Thread: In current Russia-Georgia conflict, who is right?

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  1. #1
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    In current Russia-Georgia conflict, who is right?

    In current Russia-Georgia conflict, who has the right stance in your view?

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    Georgia, better to fight and die, than roll over like a whipped dog and die anyway. The real poll should be who will Russia attack next. Perhaps Estonia, after all they dared to try and remove statues made by Russians for Russians in Estonia. Or maybe the Ukraine, after all their naked aggression against Russia for not threatening the Black Sea fleet which used Ukrainian ports to attack a UN member state. Not trying to break Godwin's Law, but Putin is a legalist like a certain bullet eater in the 30's and 40's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Georgia, better to fight and die, than roll over like a whipped dog and die anyway. The real poll should be who will Russia attack next. Perhaps Estonia, after all they dared to try and remove statues made by Russians for Russians in Estonia. Or maybe the Ukraine, after all their naked aggression against Russia for not threatening the Black Sea fleet which used Ukrainian ports to attack a UN member state. Not trying to break Godwin's Law, but Putin is a legalist like a certain bullet eater in the 30's and 40's.
    The questions you are asking are all the wrong ones Nobody cares about Estonia or Ukraine, or even Georgia. Those countries take more than they can give.

    The real question is - will US trade those for the real gold in Iran?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker View Post
    The questions you are asking are all the wrong ones Nobody cares about Estonia or Ukraine, or even Georgia. Those countries take more than they can give.

    The real question is - will US trade those for the real gold in Iran?
    Iran is a wholly owned franchise of Russia they just don't know it yet. Putin got them to agree to ban all western firms from the Caspian Sea. If Iran wants at its energy Reserves it has to go through Russia. They probably can't even grow their own thanks to Russia not vetoing sanctions. Normally the Russian's aren't very slick in diplomacy being very much a bear. But dealing with Iran was some of the slickest moves I've ever seen or heard about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Iran is a wholly owned franchise of Russia they just don't know it yet. Putin got them to agree to ban all western firms from the Caspian Sea. If Iran wants at its energy Reserves it has to go through Russia. They probably can't even grow their own thanks to Russia not vetoing sanctions. Normally the Russian's aren't very slick in diplomacy being very much a bear. But dealing with Iran was some of the slickest moves I've ever seen or heard about.
    Everyone changes, and the world changes too. There are times when you have all the aces, and there are times when you got to trade some.

    If US could take Iran alone like in the old times, they would be done it by now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker View Post
    Everyone changes, and the world changes too. There are times when you have all the aces, and there are times when you got to trade some.

    If US could take Iran alone like in the old times, they would be done it by now.
    You've made a basic mistake in reasoning there. If some one does not do something, it does not automatically follow that they are not doing it because they cannot do it. The US has never attacked Iran offensively despite all sorts of provocations. Keeping the oil flowing without interruption has been more important. So until that guiding tenet changes, the failure of the US to attack Iran cannot be seen as the inability to attack Iran, but as a lack of desire to attack Iran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Iran is a wholly owned franchise of Russia they just don't know it yet. Putin got them to agree to ban all western firms from the Caspian Sea. If Iran wants at its energy Reserves it has to go through Russia. They probably can't even grow their own thanks to Russia not vetoing sanctions. Normally the Russian's aren't very slick in diplomacy being very much a bear. But dealing with Iran was some of the slickest moves I've ever seen or heard about.
    Iran dealing with putin might lead it to the same place as Afghanistan and Chechnya.

    Invasion

    Ten year occupation

    Ruined country

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatock View Post
    Iran dealing with putin might lead it to the same place as Afghanistan and Chechnya.

    Invasion

    Ten year occupation

    Ruined country
    The Soviet Union had 17 times the population of Afghanistan in 1979. Russia currently has slightly less than half the population of the Soviet Union when it dissolved. Russia's population is only 2 times that of Iran. The CIA World Factbook states that Russia has 21 million in manpower fit for military service, while Iran has 17 million, and both have about 800,000 manpower reaching military age yearly.

    Just based on these facts alone, and not going into the argument of military capabilities, the strategic depth of Iran, or the merits of discussing the likelihood or unlikelihood or such an event occurring in the first place, I don't see how Russia can sustain an invasion of Iran.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatock View Post
    Iran dealing with putin might lead it to the same place as Afghanistan and Chechnya.

    Invasion

    Ten year occupation

    Ruined country
    Afghanistan and Chechnya were guerilla wars against irregulars.

    Iran has an army.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatock View Post
    Iran dealing with putin might lead it to the same place as Afghanistan and Chechnya.

    Invasion

    Ten year occupation

    Ruined country
    Hmmm... Interesting conclusion. Remind me, WHY do we need to invade Iran in the first place? This possibility is not even on the table. Not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Georgia, better to fight and die, than roll over like a whipped dog and die anyway. The real poll should be who will Russia attack next. Perhaps Estonia, after all they dared to try and remove statues made by Russians for Russians in Estonia. Or maybe the Ukraine, after all their naked aggression against Russia for not threatening the Black Sea fleet which used Ukrainian ports to attack a UN member state. Not trying to break Godwin's Law, but Putin is a legalist like a certain bullet eater in the 30's and 40's.
    Ahaha.


    You should really read up on Georgian history. When the turks would come into village, Georgians would be the first to present their sons to become Janisarries. Georgians don't fight to the end, they capitulate. The Pre-baltic states are a pit for Russia, I don't see Russians going into that ungrateful region ever again. And that black sea fleet port is originally Russian. You should hear what the people who live there say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovietHonor View Post
    Ahaha.


    You should really read up on Georgian history. When the turks would come into village, Georgians would be the first to present their sons to become Janisarries. Georgians don't fight to the end, they capitulate.
    The racism aside, the gist of my post was not aimed at how the war ended, but how and why it began.

    The Pre-baltic states are a pit for Russia, I don't see Russians going into that ungrateful region ever again.
    The Baltic is a strategic imperative for a strong Russia.

    And that black sea fleet port is originally Russian. You should hear what the people who live there say.
    And parts of Russia where Chechen, your point being? Its Ukrainian now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    And parts of Russia where Chechen, your point being? Its Ukrainian now.
    Chechnya is not a country, but rather a territory constantly fought for by it's neighbors. It's never been a sovereign country. So actually is Ukraine until some recent point.

    South Osetia and Abxazia is a little bit different in a sense that they were never georgian's Georgia. They were always independent, semi-independent, or autonomous. Had their own kings, dukes and nobility in imperial times. And their own government at all others.

    The conflict is continuing for centuries, and last time they defended their independence militarily in 1992.

    Georgians just don't want to give them freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovietHonor View Post
    Ahaha.

    You should really read up on Georgian history. When the turks would come into village, Georgians would be the first to present their sons to become Janisarries. Georgians don't fight to the end, they capitulate. The Pre-baltic states are a pit for Russia, I don't see Russians going into that ungrateful region ever again. And that black sea fleet port is originally Russian. You should hear what the people who live there say.
    I'm not going to defend Georgia's ill-prepared attack, but do you really need to bring ancient tribal/ethnic slurs to the discussion? After all, the Russians spent a long time as doormats for the Tatars, and one can tell endless stories of how the Russians set new standards for grovelling.

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    Hypocrisy by NATO

    i had earlier posted this on another thread but i feel it is more appropriate here.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The KLA attempted to wrest Kosovo from Serbia and Serbia sent in the army. Without bothering with a UN resolution Nato bombed them out and advanced through Kovoso up to what is now called 'Serbia proper'.
    At the time Russia complained bitterly that a sovereign nation's borders were being violated by the 'international community' or by what the Serbs called the 'Nato fascist aggressor'.
    Moscow called on the Nato powers to halt the bombing which killed several thousand Serb civilians and which targeted among other things a television station.
    Without dout Nato descended into farcical claims of 100,000 Kosovan men being killed and of football stadiums full of prisoners. It was rubbish.
    This spring the US and most of the EU nations recognised Kosovan independence and thus legitimised the changing of a sovereign state's borders through violence - their own.
    just replace NATO with Russia and vice versa, Serbia with Georgia, kla with south ossetian rebels,... you get my drift

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