View Poll Results: In current Russia-Georgia conflict, who is right?

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  • Russia

    82 53.95%
  • Georgia

    51 33.55%
  • Other

    19 12.50%
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Thread: In current Russia-Georgia conflict, who is right?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Holier than thou?
    I'm just confused how Russia can invade a neighbour, (yes, South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, far more so than say Kashmir is a part of India), destroy their infrastructure, occupy more than half their country, and somehow it ends up as America's fault.
    If South Ossetia was so much a part of Georgia. Why is it that:

    On 10 November 1989, the South Ossetian regional council asked the Georgian Supreme Soviet for the region to be upgraded to that of "autonomous republic". In 1989 the Georgian Supreme Soviet established Georgian as the principal language countrywide.
    On November 10, 1989, the South Ossetian Supreme Soviet approved a decision to unite South Ossetia with the North Ossetian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, part of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. However, a day later, the Georgian SSR Supreme Soviet revoked the decision and on 23 November, thousands of Georgian nationalists led by Zviad Gamsakhurdia and other opposition leaders marched to Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, to hold a meeting there. The Ossetians mobilized blocking the road and only the interference of Soviet Army units could avoid the clash between the two demonstrations. The Soviet commanders made Georgian demonstrators turn back. However, several people were wounded in subsequent clashes between Georgians and Ossetians.
    The Georgian Supreme Soviet adopted a law barring regional parties in summer 1990. This was interpreted by Ossetians as a move against Ademon Nykhas and led to Ossetians proclaiming South Ossetia a Soviet Democratic Republic,[20] fully sovereign within the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). Ossetians boycotted subsequent Georgian parliamentary elections and held their own contest in December. The Georgian government headed by Zviad Gamsakhurdia declared this election illegitimate and abolished South Ossetia's autonomous status altogether on 11 December, 1990.[17]
    Georgian‚€“Ossetian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A little background information goes a long way.

    I agree with your Kashmir point though it seems that the majority of the Muslims there wanted to be part of Pakistan but India didn't allow it or something.
    Last edited by King Six; 14 Aug 08, at 10:26.

  2. #47
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Holier than thou?
    I'm just confused how Russia can invade a neighbour, (yes, South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, far more so than say Kashmir is a part of India), destroy their infrastructure, occupy more than half their country, and somehow it ends up as America's fault.
    I was waiting for it!

    Are you aware of Kashmir history or are you dependent on the English media spin as the whole world is?

    Destroy Kashmir's infrastructure? Please check the GDP of the so called Azad Kashmir, Northern Areas and Indian administered Kashmir. Check the improvement from the time of Independence.

    Where has Kashmir been Pakistan's?

    Just because the Kashmir Valley (one third of J&K) is Moslem majority does not make it Pakistan! That way half of India would be Pakistan. We have the second largest majority of Moslems.

    Yes, let Kashmir be Pakistan's. But can they also take the remainder of the Moslems and even think of accommodating them by the square inch of their country?

    Since you are such a fanboy of Pakistan, please start the process. India cannot at repeated intervals of time keep getting partitioned on the whims and fancies of Islamic adherents!

    Just because pan Islamist rebels who are out of work terrorists in Afghanistan want to foment problems do you expect that it should be adhered to?

    So, what is all this WoT.

    Hand over the US to Osama and the others. They have shown what it is all about.

    Why have a WoT.

    Hand over the world to them and get into some safe hole like women!

    Are you aware of the Instrument of Accession that was essential for all Princely states to sign and which was signed?

    Religion is not an important factor in India to decide our union!
    Last edited by Ray; 14 Aug 08, at 11:10.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Holier than thou?
    I'm just confused how Russia can invade a neighbour, (yes, South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, far more so than say Kashmir is a part of India), destroy their infrastructure, occupy more than half their country, and somehow it ends up as America's fault.

    Didn't NATO (=USA) do the exact same thing in Kosovo?
    I don't see you bashing NATO anywhere here.
    Didn't the Americans bomb Serbia's infrastructure into oblivion?
    Didn't they destroy schools, churches, hospitals? Didn't they attack a TV station? Didn't they kill lots and lots of unarmed civilians?

    I am not justifying Russia by using NATO's example. To a non-military professional like me, both are scum. But some people here, including you Pari, take NATO's action as "good or necessary by default". Also, it was OK for the Georgians to blast 2,000 civilians overnight. No harm done. As long as they are an ally, right?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    I was waiting for it!

    Are you aware of Kashmir history or are you dependent on the English media spin as the whole world is?

    Destroy Kashmir's infrastructure? Please check the GDP of the so called Azad Kashmir, Northern Areas and Indian administered Kashmir. Check the improvement from the time of Independence.

    Where has Kashmir been Pakistan's?

    Just because the Kashmir Valley (one third of J&K) is Moslem majority does not make it Pakistan! That way half of India would be Pakistan. We have the second largest majority of Moslems.

    Yes, let Kashmir be Pakistan's. But can they also take the remainder of the Moslems and even think of accommodating them by the square inch of their country?

    Since you are such a fanboy of Pakistan, please start the process. India cannot at repeated intervals of time keep getting partitioned on the whims and fancies of Islamic adherents!
    And yet Georgia is apparently merely stupid to try and reclaim Sth Ossetia despite having international recognition that it is its territory, Russia is blameless in driving them out and seizing half of the rest of Georgia as well because Serbia lost Kosovo, and it is all the Americans fault because they, like every other country in the world didn't do anything about it.
    Pull the other one Ray, it's got bells on)
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    Didn't NATO (=USA) do the exact same thing in Kosovo?
    I don't see you bashing NATO anywhere here.
    Why the hell should I want to abuse NATO?
    If you want to abuse them, go start a thread about it, but don't rattle on to me about how I should think and feel about it.
    In case you hadn't noticed, this is a discussion about the ongoing occupation of Georgia by Russia, you want to talk about how much you dislike NATO, go here.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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  6. #51
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    Criticizing is not abusing.
    And, luckily, i am neither fan boy nor blind.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    I am not justifying Russia by using NATO's example. To a non-military professional like me, both are scum. But some people here, including you Pari, take NATO's action as "good or necessary by default". Also, it was OK for the Georgians to blast 2,000 civilians overnight. No harm done. As long as they are an ally, right?
    Oh and by the way

    "good or necessary by default"
    :I have never said any such thing, so stop misquoting me.

    Also, it was OK for the Georgians to blast 2,000 civilians overnight
    According to HRW the death toll in Sth Osettia according to the hospitals there was less than 200 and the 2000 figure was simple bullshyt by Russia and her supporters to justify their invasion.

    As long as they are an ally, right?
    Read :Location: Te Ika a Maui.
    NATO is not my country's ally


    Pari

    My friends call me pari, to you my name is parihaka.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    Criticizing is not abusing.
    And, luckily, i am neither fan boy nor blind.
    And yet quite happy to lie about what I've said on two items, and dictate to me about what I think on a subject I haven't even commented on.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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  9. #54
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    I have never said any such thing, so stop misquoting me

    I don't remember quoting you specifically. But remember that we aren't only judged by our actions but by our omissions as well. To me, silently accepting something means endorsing it as well.

    According to HRW the death toll in Sth Osettia according to the hospitals there was less than 200 and the 2000 figure was simple bullshyt by Russia and her supporters to justify their invasion.

    So, let me rephrase: 200 CIVILIANS blown overnight is ok?

    Read :Location: Te Ika a Maui.
    NATO is not my country's ally


    Again, I wasn't referring to you specifically. Since you want to make it personal though, I'll tell you that it doesn't take too much effort to see that you whole heartily support NATO's actions.

    My friends call me pari, to you my name is parihaka.

    Apologies, Parihaka.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    And yet Georgia is apparently merely stupid to try and reclaim Sth Ossetia despite having international recognition that it is its territory, Russia is blameless in driving them out and seizing half of the rest of Georgia as well because Serbia lost Kosovo, and it is all the Americans fault because they, like every other country in the world didn't do anything about it.
    Pull the other one Ray, it's got bells on)
    Did you not read how the Georgians themselves brought it about of autonomy and all that? Check the threads.

    Yes indeed it is US' fault for leading Sassyvally up the garden path, the same way as Saddam was led to attack Kuwait!! Of course, to use an allegory and nothing personal, you are no elephant since elephants are said to have long memory.

    Do you want me to enumerate how many times the US has on its own decided to attack countries and with trumped up reasons and I am not meaning Iraq alone?

    Do you feel that the confusion after Tito died was totally spontaneous?

    If so, you require to go more in depth!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Oh and by the way

    "good or necessary by default"
    :I have never said any such thing, so stop misquoting me.

    Also, it was OK for the Georgians to blast 2,000 civilians overnight
    According to HRW the death toll in Sth Osettia according to the hospitals there was less than 200 and the 2000 figure was simple bullshyt by Russia and her supporters to justify their invasion.

    As long as they are an ally, right?
    Read :Location: Te Ika a Maui.
    NATO is not my country's ally


    Pari

    My friends call me pari, to you my name is parihaka.
    Did you not see the pictures of the Grad BM 21 being fired?

    They are not accurate, but they devastate with fire!

    Great weapons against civilians, right?

    So, where is you another western weapon against all, when it suit your convenience - human rights?


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    Did you not see the pictures of the Grad BM 21 being fired?

    They are not accurate, but they devastate with fire!

    Great weapons against civilians, right?

    So, where is you another western weapon against all, when it suit your convenience - human rights?
    I've seen many shots of dead bodies plastered across the media Ray. I can't see anywhere in my above post(s) where I have either celebrated or belittled them. You want to talk about human rights that is fine by me but I resent the implication by you that my concern for humanity is allied purely with my politics and the subject of the war in Georgia is now closed between us.
    Good day.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    I have never said any such thing, so stop misquoting me

    I don't remember quoting you specifically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    I am not justifying Russia by using NATO's example. To a non-military professional like me, both are scum. But some people here, including you Pari, take NATO's action as "good or necessary by default". Also, it was OK for the Georgians to blast 2,000 civilians overnight. No harm done. As long as they are an ally, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    But remember that we aren't only judged by our actions but by our omissions as well. To me, silently accepting something means endorsing it as well.
    Since you've omitted to mention genocide, rape, murder, racism, bigotry and torture I'll take your silent acceptance as approval.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    According to HRW the death toll in Sth Osettia according to the hospitals there was less than 200 and the 2000 figure was simple bullshyt by Russia and her supporters to justify their invasion.

    So, let me rephrase: 200 CIVILIANS blown overnight is ok?
    Let me rephrase, where have I said that it is ok? More putting words in my mouth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    Read :Location: Te Ika a Maui.
    NATO is not my country's ally


    Again, I wasn't referring to you specifically.
    Yes you were, that's why you quoted me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamantius View Post
    Since you want to make it personal though, I'll tell you that it doesn't take too much effort to see that you whole heartily support NATO's actions.
    Really? Show me some proof. You've got ten minutes.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    I've seen many shots of dead bodies plastered across the media Ray. I can't see anywhere in my above post(s) where I have either celebrated or belittled them. You want to talk about human rights that is fine by me but I resent the implication by you that my concern for humanity is allied purely with my politics and the subject of the war in Georgia is now closed between us.
    Good day.
    There is no shortage of dead bodies wherever there is an agitation.

    But then the dead bodies which are not confrontationist does not catch the western media.

    There are many dead bodies in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they are not there for the world to see!

    And if they are shown on Islamic media, they are contrived, right?

    Noted how Al Jazzera was intimidated in Iraq?

    So, let us not get holier than thou.

    As I said, we are all sinners!

    Georgia is a mess and one has to have the morale courage to see its in it correct perspective and bring it to a close instead of fanning the fires!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    .Really? Show me some proof. You've got ten minutes.
    I was generous, I gave you twenty. Begone troll
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

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