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Thread: South Ossetia

  1. #1561
    Seor Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Does Estonia have the power to force the road? Russia does unless the West stands together.
    from this thread -
    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wes...rinciples.html
    Here are the principles, in the words which President Medvedev used in an interview with the three main Russian TV channels (translated by the BBC Monitoring Service).

    1. International law

    "Russia recognises the primacy of the basic principles of international law, which define relations between civilised nations. It is in the framework of these principles, of this concept of international law, that we will develop our relations with other states."


    If im not wrong , the demand for land corridor would give us the equal possibility, right ? )
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

  2. #1562
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    If im not wrong , the demand for land corridor would give us the equal possibility, right ? )
    Oh, really? And I thought that uncontrollable urges to "die under Smolensk" should have passed already.

  3. #1563
    You would need an enclave controlled by Estonian government with internationally recognized borders.

  4. #1564
    Senior Contributor xrough's Avatar
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    Update:

    EU suspends talks on Russia pact


    European Union leaders have agreed to suspend talks on a new partnership agreement with Moscow until Russian troops have withdrawn from Georgia.

    EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said it was clear it could not "continue as if nothing had happened", after an emergency summit in Brussels.

    The EU also condemned Russia's move to recognise the independence of Georgia's regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    Russia said the talks suspension had damaged the credibility of the bloc.

    "It is more of a self-punishment for the European Union because this does not improve the EU's credibility as a negotiating partner," Russia's envoy to the EU, Vladimir Chizhov, said.

    Earlier, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned the EU and the US that further support for Georgia would be a "historic" mistake.

    Mr Lavrov also called for an embargo on arms supplies to Tbilisi until a different government was in place there.

    The EU's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, meanwhile said it was prepared to send hundreds of civilian monitors to Georgia to check if Russia was abiding by the EU-brokered ceasefire agreement.

    Fighting between Russia and Georgia began on 7 August after the Georgian military tried to retake South Ossetia by force.

    Russian forces launched a counter-attack and the conflict ended with the ejection of Georgian troops from South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    'Gravely concerned'

    Speaking after EU leaders met in Brussels to discuss the crisis, Mr Barroso and French President Nicolas Sarkozy announced they had agreed to postpone talks on an EU-Russia partnership deal.

    The timing of the talks, originally scheduled for mid-September, would depend on Russian forces moving back to their pre-7 August positions, he added.

    Mr Sarkozy, whose country is the current holder of the EU presidency, said the crisis meant the bloc had to re-examine its relationship with Russia.

    "The EU would welcome a real partnership with Russia, which is in the interests of all, but you have to be two to have a partnership," he said.

    The French president also announced that he would visit Moscow on Monday along with Mr Barroso and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana for a "crucial" meeting with the Russian government.

    A joint statement from the EU summit said the European Council was gravely concerned by the "disproportionate reaction of Russia" in Georgia, and called on other states not to follow Russia's lead by recognising the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    "We are convinced that it is in Russia's own interest not to isolate itself from Europe," it added.

    There was also a strong signal of support for Georgia, with EU-wide backing for a donors' conference for reconstruction, the promise of a free trade area and fewer travel restrictions on its citizens.

    To coincide with the summit, Georgians held several rallies across their country and in other European capitals, at which they called for further Western support and assistance.

    President Mikhail Saakashvili told a crowd of thousands in Tbilisi's Freedom Square that Georgia was "united as never before" and urged EU leaders not to give up in the face of Russian "aggression".

    'Responsible state'

    Earlier, Mr Lavrov warned the US and its allies that supporting President Saakashvili would be a historic mistake, and called for an arms embargo "while a different government turns Georgia into a normal state".

    "To protect the region from the recurrence of violence, Russia will continue taking measures to punish the guilty, so that this regime is never able to do evil," he said.

    Speaking in Moscow, Mr Lavrov said Russia had returned to the world stage as a responsible state which could defend its citizens.

    Mr Lavrov's comments follow Mr Medvedev's redefining of Russia's foreign policy principles.

    Russia, the Kremlin leader declared, would no longer accept a situation whereby a single country, like the US, sought global domination.

    Mr Medvedev also pledged to defend the lives and dignity of Russian citizens, wherever they are located.

    He made it clear that there were parts of the world where Russia sees itself as having privileged interests.

  5. #1565
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    my great thought

    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    from this thread -
    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wes...rinciples.html
    Here are the principles, in the words which President Medvedev used in an interview with the three main Russian TV channels (translated by the BBC Monitoring Service).

    1. International law

    "Russia recognises the primacy of the basic principles of international law, which define relations between civilised nations. It is in the framework of these principles, of this concept of international law, that we will develop our relations with other states."


    If im not wrong , the demand for land corridor would give us the equal possibility, right ? )
    You know a while ago my wonderful thoughts went like this. Russia should annex Estonia/Latvia and re-settle Estonians/Latvians that want a seperate country on a divided in half Kaliningrad that way everyone could be close to where they want to be. Ergo those that want to be closer to Eu would be and those that want to be closer to Russia as well. But that would be too much work really nor realistic in any scenario, bar a Nato attack on Russia.

    (P.S. that protective alliance cuts both ways if you loose, you pay part of the price of the parties that lost
    P.S.S. thats some dark humor for you right there)
    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

  6. #1566
    Seor Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyppok View Post
    You know a while ago my wonderful thoughts went like this. Russia should annex Estonia/Latvia and re-settle Estonians/Latvians that want a seperate country on a divided in half Kaliningrad that way everyone could be close to where they want to be. Ergo those that want to be closer to Eu would be and those that want to be closer to Russia as well. But that would be too much work really nor realistic in any scenario, bar a Nato attack on Russia.

    (P.S. that protective alliance cuts both ways if you loose, you pay part of the price of the parties that lost
    P.S.S. thats some dark humor for you right there)
    quoting myself from one of my previous post
    Originally Posted by braindead View Post

    Added : Im the first to acknowledge that weve made plenty of stupid mistakes too , like our late president Meri who was negotiating with Yeltsin the leaving of Rus. troops and , irritated by boasting ,tipsy Yeltsin , shouted that weve never wanted to live by you. You came here later and we simply have no place to go further. If it were possible to dig us free from Russias neighbourhood wed done it centuries ago and sailed away! . It reflects many Est.views , but was not probably a smart thing to say

    there has been a project that includes really big digging machine and couple of really big oars...
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

  7. #1567
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    Apparently there are some changes in Georgian military command.
    1. Former commander of Arty brigade Devi Chankotadze in appointed deputy cheif of Joint Staff
    2. Former deputy chief of Joint Staff Alexiy Osepaishvili is demoted and appointer chief of one of MoD departments
    3. Commander of 5th inf. brigade Zurab Agladze is apponted Chief of Land Forces
    4. Former Chief of Land Forces is sent to 'rise qualification' to Germany

  8. #1568
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    Darth Vader has made a statement about the confrontation dark and bright sides of force in SO (video):
    Видео "Стёб над правительством США (жесть)", автор: Irishk007 - Smotri.Com

    )))

  9. #1569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injecteer View Post
    In the past?! Iraq IS occupied right now!

    It's clear that noone on Earth doesn't want to get occupied for the sins of their leaders. Everyone would drive nervous to see some foreign armed patrols in the center of the town.

    Although from the political PoV there's no such things like 'mercy' or feelings at all. The polititians are driven by 'laws'. From that perspective, if one world power dared to occupy foreign countries, then another power would be glad to exploit the same possibility!
    That's why noone can really accuse Russia or any other country for invasion, after the US did it in Yugoslavia and Middle East. The propaganda (what a cliche'!) you see on the tele might persuade someone, but not those who rule.
    I think the US still has some bases in Germany as well.

  10. #1570
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    Please, click the next link and tell your comments of the published in it.Is it crude Russian state propaganda or it might be the true? Can a congressman from California say that the situation reminded him of the Bay of Tonkin incident, where the US used a pretext for beginning the war in Vietnam? U.S. Intelligence Sees It Russias Way - Kommersant Moscow

  11. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by osplant View Post
    Please, click the next link and tell your comments of the published in it.Is it crude Russian state propaganda or it might be the true? Can a congressman from California say that the situation reminded him of the Bay of Tonkin incident, where the US used a pretext for beginning the war in Vietnam? U.S. Intelligence Sees It Russia’s Way - Kommersant Moscow
    Well, he could, and apparently he somehow questioned official US govt. position in this conflict. But so far I've haven't found full trascript of his speech, so its hard to say if he said it in exactly those words.

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuriff View Post
    Well, he could, and apparently he somehow questioned official US govt. position in this conflict. But so far I've haven't found full trascript of his speech, so its hard to say if he said it in exactly those words.
    Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    if asks to resubmit search for: Republic of Georgia Enhanced Trade Assistance, Economic Recovery, and Reconstruction Act of 2008 (Introduced in House)[H.R.6851.IH]
    Legislative Branch Resources on GPO Access

    I tried searching for the debate text found a debate text of a different bill but couldn't find this one. Try for yourself though.
    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

  13. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyppok View Post
    Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    if asks to resubmit search for: Republic of Georgia Enhanced Trade Assistance, Economic Recovery, and Reconstruction Act of 2008 (Introduced in House)[H.R.6851.IH]
    Legislative Branch Resources on GPO Access

    I tried searching for the debate text found a debate text of a different bill but couldn't find this one. Try for yourself though.
    Well, I've found a webcast of the hearings, Rohrabacher's speech is also there. Its on 21.00 and on 1-07-00. Webcast is quite huge, its 4 hours long.

    Mr. Berman's position is quite interesting, yet not very original.

    http://international.edgeboss.net/re...fc09092008.smi

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