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Women in combat - the Smith sisters

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  • Women in combat - the Smith sisters

    A family with three daughters who are pilots serving in Afghanistan.
    Quite an impressive military family with a grandfather who served as a WWII pilot!

    ROFASIX - CAV Guy!
    Bagram Air Base - Story Media
    Combined Joint Task Force - 101 / CJTF - 101 - Families tied by war: Sisters pilot Afghan skies

    Last edited by Shek; 29 Jul 08,, 15:42.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  • #2
    The only thing I have to say about that would make my wife come after me with a broom....again.

    It's good to see such service in a family.

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    • #3
      Highly Admirable :)

      Also, I didn't realise JCO's could become pilots in the US Military, out here only officers can become pilots
      When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

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      • #4
        Yes, most Army pilots are warrant officers

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        • #5
          Originally posted by sourkraut115 View Post
          Yes, most Army pilots are warrant officers
          Ok:)

          IA only operates three choppers, Cheetah,Chetak and Dhruv..all pilots are officers
          Last edited by Knaur Amarsh; 01 Aug 08,, 17:10. Reason: Forgot the Dhruv
          When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

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          • #6
            In Britains Army Air Corps the majority of pilots are NCOs.
            Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by glyn View Post
              In Britains Army Air Corps the majority of pilots are NCOs.
              I wonder why its different in the IA thensince its patterned on the British Army
              When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

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              • #8
                The USAF has no warrant officers; I believe that all USMC pilots are currently commissoned (please correct me, Amphibious Brethren, if I am wrong), but the Marines do have a history of NCO pilots; I believe that the US Navy has recently developed a program for warrant officer pilots, but I am sketchy on the details. In the Army, warrant officers fill most of the pilot ranks, with officer-pilots in command roles. In my opinion, this is a very good use of resources (it would be interesting if the USAF were to adopt such a system) that maximizes pilot skills.

                What role do the JCO's fill in the IA?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sourkraut115 View Post
                  What role do the JCO's fill in the IA?
                  Sir, you mean in army aviation or overall?

                  In aviation they would be in ground support I suppose, there are very limited seats in army aviation and only commissioned officers can become chopper pilots, its considered a prestigious job.

                  The role of JCO's overall would be similar to Warrant Officers, they are basically senior-most enlisted men, Subedar Major being equal to RSM..Subedars are in charge of platoons..for NCO's Havaldar Major is a rank somewhat similar to Sergeant Major..

                  Perhaps, some of the IA personnel on board could give you a better idea:)
                  When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

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                  • #10
                    I really meant overall.

                    In the US Army, senior non-commissioned officers and warrant officers are distinctly different. WO's (most of them "Chief" Warrant Officers) are in a separate class between officers and enlisted; they are essentially highly specialized officers, often with enlisted experience but not always (especially pilots). Platoons are normally led by a second lieutenant with a sergeant first class (E-7) platoon sergeant, although sometimes there is an NCO platoon leader. A company First Sergeant (company/squadron sergeant-major) is an E-8, the same pay grade as a Master Sergeant. Sergeants Major and Command Sergeants Major are E-9s (the CSM would be equivalent to an RSM, at battalion-level, but CSM's are assigned to each echelon of command up to Department of the Army as senior enlisted advisors; the Sergeant Major of the Army is a special grade for the senior enlisted soldier who advises the Chief of Staff and Secretary of the Army).

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                    • #11
                      I have always thought that the US Army could benefit from a few specialist warrant platoon leaders, former NCOs who specialized in small-unit tactical leadership as opposed to the administrative functions of senior NCO's or the career ticket punching required for commissioned officers. Perhaps only a few would be assigned to each battalion, but they could provide valuable professionalism in companies and in the S-3 section.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sourkraut115 View Post
                        I really meant overall.

                        In the US Army, senior non-commissioned officers and warrant officers are distinctly different. WO's (most of them "Chief" Warrant Officers) are in a separate class between officers and enlisted; they are essentially highly specialized officers, often with enlisted experience but not always (especially pilots). Platoons are normally led by a second lieutenant with a sergeant first class (E-7) platoon sergeant, although sometimes there is an NCO platoon leader. A company First Sergeant (company/squadron sergeant-major) is an E-8, the same pay grade as a Master Sergeant. Sergeants Major and Command Sergeants Major are E-9s (the CSM would be equivalent to an RSM, at battalion-level, but CSM's are assigned to each echelon of command up to Department of the Army as senior enlisted advisors; the Sergeant Major of the Army is a special grade for the senior enlisted soldier who advises the Chief of Staff and Secretary of the Army).
                        Sir, Warrant officer ranks are there in the IAF but not IA

                        JCO's may not have enlisted experience in certain cases like education,hospitality or religious services jobs but they always have enlisted experience in combat arms

                        Platoon is usually led by a Lt. ( the rank of 2nd Lt. is abolished) but may be led by a Subedar depending on availability of commissioned personnel.I am not aware of NCO's leading platoon in any case, Havildar (Sgt.Maj.) leads a section.

                        CSM is equal to Company Havildar Major..RSM(battalion level) is Subedar Major..

                        Above of that there are Honourary Lt. and Hon.Capt. ranks..
                        When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Very interesting. Very different systems.

                          In the US Army, an Infantry squad (section) leader is a Staff Sergeant (sometimes a Sergeant), assisted by two fire team leaders (Sergeants, sometimes Corporals). Staff Sergeants are E-6, Sergeants are E-5. I had a squad for about three months as a Corporal in Korea years ago, but that was a wierd circumstance when there were simply no more NCO's available and all the E-4's had to step up and lead squads or teams. I also had a platoon as an E-6, both as PL and as PSG at different times. When I was finally promoted to SFC, it was for a staff job, and only a major mobilization brought me back to a line platoon, where I spent the last year (having the time of my life with some great soldiers and a very solid lieutenant).
                          Last edited by sourkraut115; 01 Aug 08,, 18:18.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sourkraut115 View Post
                            Very interesting. Very different systems.

                            In the US Army, an Infantry squad (section) leader is a Staff Sergeant (sometimes a Sergeant), assisted by two fire team leaders (Sergeants, sometimes Corporals). Staff Sergeants are E-6, Sergeants are E-5. I had a squad for about three months as a Corporal in Korea years ago, but that was a wierd circumstance when there were simply no more NCO's available and all the E-4's had to step up and lead squads or teams. I also had a platoon as an E-6, both as PL and as PSG at different times. When I was finally promoted to SFC, it was for a staff job, and only a major mobilization brought me back to a line platoon, where I spent the last year (having the time of my life with some great soldiers and a very solid lieutenant).
                            A slight correction sir, Havaldar is equiv. to Sgt., Hav.Maj. is equiv. to Sgt.Major

                            Corporals are called Naiks in IA,Lance Naik being L.Corporal.

                            The difference in systems may be due to the fact that Indian Army is based on British Army, not the US one..

                            Or it might be that I am not aware of half the rank structure
                            When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Would an IA platoon also have a platoon sergeant, in addition to a Lieutenant and a Subedar? And would the Subedar outrank the company sergeant major?

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