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Russian Navy Commander- Russia to have 5-6 Carrier Groups

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  • Russian Navy Commander- Russia to have 5-6 Carrier Groups

    RIA Novosti report

    This got a cursory mention in the Daily Mail (which got the name of the Admiral Kuznetsov wrong). The article also referenced something called "Arctic Wind submarines"? What would they be?

  • #2
    Before all the Yanks on this forum begin to ridicule this article, I would like to say: Where do you think your oil money is going to?

    Comment


    • #3
      To Canada and Mexico.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by s_qwert63 View Post
        Before all the Yanks on this forum begin to ridicule this article, I would like to say: Where do you think your oil money is going to?
        Certainly not where your proposing.

        Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

        And thats fact not ridicule from one of us "Yanks"

        Russia doesnt even rank on that list. Canada First, Saudi's second,Mexico,Venezuala,Nigeria,Iraq,Angola,Algeri a,Brazil,Kuwait.

        Five carrier groups? So tell us when will they be up for sale again? Some of us remember Russia having a clearence sale on all their carriers not very long ago.
        Last edited by Dreadnought; 28 Jul 08,, 14:03.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by s_qwert63 View Post
          Before all the Yanks on this forum begin to ridicule this article, I would like to say: Where do you think your oil money is going to?
          If the article posted above is any indication. I offer this article from the same news agency in return.

          Titled:Why Russia lacks Aircraft Carriers.

          MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti political commentator Andrei Kislyakov) - Soviet military policies never called for building full-fledged aircraft carriers operating multi-role warplanes. Nor did Russia draft any clear carrier construction program at the turn of the century.

          On July 4, Admiral Viktor Kravchenko, former chief of the Russian Navy's Main Headquarters, said the country had to build a carrier fleet in the near future. This call is a reaction to reports of two aircraft carriers being built for the British Royal Navy. As before, Russia is reacting slowly to Western naval successes.

          In the early 1970s, the Soviet Union could have built a real prototype aircraft carrier. The Project 1160 carrier design would have balanced the Soviet-U.S. naval strengths. The United States had more surface warships and long experience of carrier operations.

          Under Project 1160, the U.S.S.R. was to have built three nuclear-powered aircraft carriers with catapult-launched Sukhoi Su-27K Flanker warplanes. The projected carrier force was supposed to operate in conjunction with naval strategic bombers and attack submarines for the purpose of hindering the deployment of enemy carrier task forces.

          However, Project 1160 was opposed by an alternative program for building heavy air-capable cruisers (Russian acronym TAVKR), supported by Dmitry Ustinov, secretary of the Soviet Communist Party's Central Committee in 1965-1976 with oversight of the armed forces, the defense industry and security agencies.

          TAVKR was an unviable hybrid warship combining the specifications of a heavy cruiser and an aircraft carrier. The government decision to build TAVKRs also heralded the beginning of a program to develop VTOL/STOVL (Vertical Take-Off and Landing/Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing) aircraft.

          This was an ambitious task. Such aircraft are notoriously difficult to develop, and the British Aerospace Sea Harrier remains the only effective VTOL/STOVL aircraft to date.

          The Soviet VTOL/STOVL aircraft program was a complete failure. In the fall of 1991, a Yakovlev Yak-141 Freestyle plane turned into a fireball after crashing on the deck of the air-capable cruiser Admiral Gorshkov. Fortunately, the program was cancelled in 1992.

          In the mid-1970s, the government discarded project 1160, focusing on the TAVKR program instead and impeding the development of VTOL/STOVL aircraft. However, conventional fighters cannot be converted into carrier-borne aircraft because the latter experience 100-200% greater loads during landing. Consequently, such planes must be designed from scratch.

          Nevertheless, Ustinov carried on with the TAVKR program and supervised construction of the Admiral Gorshkov, the fourth warship in the series. She is now being refitted as the Vikramaditya for the Indian Navy, highlighting the fiasco of the TAVKR concept, because nobody in the world is willing to pay for such hybrid warships.

          Russia's only aircraft carrier currently in service was laid down in Nikolayev, Ukraine, in 1982. Originally called the Riga, the carrier was subsequently renamed as the Leonid Brezhnev, the Tbilisi, and the Fleet Admiral Kuznetsov.

          However, the Admiral Kuznetsov features a steam-turbine power-plant with turbo-generators and diesel generators, while all modern carriers are nuclear powered. She has a limited range and endurance and lacks the steam catapult necessary for carrier fighters. The warship does have a ski-jump in her bow section, but numerous experiments have revealed that catapults are the only way to ensure safe take-off in any weather conditions, regardless of the plane's weight.

          Moreover, the Russian carrier has just a few navalized aircraft and only about 20 experienced carrier pilots.

          This year, the United States Navy will commission its tenth Nimitz-class nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. There are plans to launch the new-generation carrier CVN-78 with electromagnetic catapults and about 100 aircraft, including unmanned aerial combat vehicles, by 2013.

          "The state rearmament program until 2016 stipulates no allocations for carrier programs," Kravchenko said. In 2009, the government will approve a concept for expanding the Russian Navy until 2050. Hopefully, the document will call for building new aircraft carriers.

          The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

          Comment


          • #6
            I will believe it when I see it!
            Naval Warfare Discussion is dying on WAB

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Stan View Post
              I will believe it when I see it!
              Me too!

              Comment


              • #8
                I see you crawled out of your hole again.

                Originally posted by s_qwert63 View Post
                Before all the Yanks on this forum begin to ridicule this article, I would like to say: Where do you think your oil money is going to?
                Gee, I don't know. Suppose you tell us?

                And while you're at it, why don't you tell us how Russia is going to manage even ONE fully active carrier battlegroup, much less 5 or 6?

                (And sending a carrier out to sea once every couple of years doesn't really qualify as "active")
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  Gee, I don't know. Suppose you tell us?

                  And while you're at it, why don't you tell us how Russia is going to manage even ONE fully active carrier battlegroup, much less 5 or 6?

                  (And sending a carrier out to sea once every couple of years doesn't really qualify as "active")
                  Hows about "actively" moored.:))
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Russian admirals have big hats.
                    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                      Gee, I don't know. Suppose you tell us?

                      And while you're at it, why don't you tell us how Russia is going to manage even ONE fully active carrier battlegroup, much less 5 or 6?

                      (And sending a carrier out to sea once every couple of years doesn't really qualify as "active")
                      Not precisely sure about availability, but... (using NATO names)

                      Carrier
                      "Kirov"
                      "Slava"
                      Three destroyers ("Sovremenny" or "Udaloy")
                      2 "Akulas"
                      A couple of oilers

                      Not too hard to rustle up those. Chuck in a couple of "Krivaks" for ASW, an "Oscar" for SSGN stuff, that's a US carrier group in number terms. Remember Russian carriers have greater SAM capability (if they go for a further CVG design, which might not happen), the "Akulas" are equivalent to the early 688s and cruise missile capable, and the Pyotr Velikiy is not something you want to argue with.

                      BTW, Russia does sell plenty of gas to Europe. We have big wallets too...
                      Last edited by Silent Hunter; 28 Jul 08,, 19:36. Reason: Adding gas stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                        Not precisely sure about availability, but... (using NATO names)

                        Carrier
                        Kirov
                        Slava
                        Three destroyers ("Sovremenny" or "Udaloy")
                        2 "Akulas"
                        A couple of oilers

                        Not hard to rustle up those. Chuck in a couple of "Krivaks" for ASW, an "Oscar" for SSGN stuff, that's a US carrier group in number terms. Remember Russian carriers have greater SAM capability (if they go for a further CVG design, which might not happen).

                        IMO, Not enough to go on parade.
                        Kirov is a guided missle cruiser no airwing.- Nuke
                        Slava is one as well no airwing.- Steam
                        Sovremenny Class-Steam turbine
                        Udaloy Class- Gas turbine
                        Akula's- Nukes
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I should have been clearer. That's one carrier group. I could find enough for two, maybe three.

                          First two have helicopters.

                          Propulsion type isn't that relevant, considering the US groups.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                            I should have been clearer. That's one carrier group. I could find enough for two, maybe three.

                            First two have helicopters.

                            Propulsion type isn't that relevant, considering the US groups.
                            All US combatants have nukular (carriers) or gas turbine for propulsion.

                            Russia might be able to field one carrier group in the near future. There simply aren't enough warships for escort duty and everything else.
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                              I should have been clearer. That's one carrier group. I could find enough for two, maybe three.

                              First two have helicopters.

                              Propulsion type isn't that relevant, considering the US groups.
                              *Sorry if misleading ,

                              Logistics and Basing would be major concern unless on parade in the Med.

                              Just before the Kursk sank Putin had planned a very simular exercise with Kirov, Kuznet. (Riga to some of us) and Kursk as the showpiece with the DDG's in line. When the Kursk incident happened it sort of dampened that theory for Putin and was cancelled even know they could have replaced her with others. More then likely because they suffered untold millions/billions on the Kursk accident and some have speculated that Kursk was not the only one carrying the Sqwal torpedo at the time. Maybe played a part in judgment not sure.
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 28 Jul 08,, 20:06.
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment

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