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  • Militants overran observation post in attack that killed 9 US troops

    Extremely unfortunate to lose so many American lives in an attack.

    'Heroic' fighting repels Afghan militants

    * Story Highlights
    * Afghanistan: Attack involved 400 to 500 militants. 9 American soldiers killed
    * Attack was the deadliest for U.S. troops in Afghanistan since June 2005
    * NATO spokesman: "This was a larger scale attack than normal"
    * U.S. commanders request Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles (MRAPs)

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Insurgents who squared off with U.S. soldiers in a major battle in eastern Afghanistan overran a military observation point just outside a coalition outpost, but failed to take the base, a U.S. military official told CNN.

    U.S.-led coalition, Afghan and NATO officials were attempting to piece together details about the confrontation which occurred Sunday in Kunar province, a location close to the Pakistan border.

    "It was heroic fighting," said another official, NATO spokesman Mark Laity, describing the U.S.-led troop performance.

    "They wanted to overrun that base," he added, referring to the militants. "They failed."

    The fighting left nine U.S. soldiers dead and 15 wounded. It marked the most fatalities in an attack on U.S. troops in Afghanistan in three years. An Afghan official estimated that 100 militants died or were wounded in the fighting.

    A U.S. official told CNN that as many as 200 insurgents were involved in the strike, which NATO said occurred at an outpost in Dara-I-Pech. However, other officials could not put a figure on the number of insurgent casualties at this time.

    The official said militants didn't get into the outpost but they did overrun a small U.S.-led observation point outside the base, where it is believed most of the American and Afghan fatalities and injuries occurred. VideoWatch more about the attack on the coalition base »

    Laity described the insurgent strike as a "major attack" by a "large group of insurgents."

    "What there was was a combat outpost had a major attack on it by a large group of insurgents. They had infiltrated a neighboring village and they fired on the base from that village and then they attacked the base itself."

    He said severe fighting followed, resulting in the American casualties and the wounding of four Afghan service members.

    "They attempted to break into that base. They did make some penetration. But overall they were repelled and they took very heavy casualties themselves," Laity said.

    He indicated that the penetration or breach that media reports about the strike referred to was the attack on the observation post.

    "We brought in air power to stabilize the situation in a fight that then lasted for several hours," he said.

    There have been occasional strikes on coalition bases in recent months -- Laity noted that the practice "is quite common."

    "This was a larger-scale attack than normal," he said, but added, "This was not a new tactic. They usually get defeated. We are very, very sad that we lost some people but again, their attempt to take that base failed."

    Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi, an Afghan Defense Ministry official, had different initial numbers than the U.S. official. He said the attack involved 400 to 500 militants, and at least 100 were killed or injured, he said.

    In June 2005, 16 U.S. troops were killed near the same province when their MH-47 helicopter was shot down by a rocket-propelled grenade.

    Since the start of coalition operations in Afghanistan, 470 U.S. troops have died, including Sunday's casualties.

    The battle illustrates the escalating war in Afghanistan, where since May U.S. and coalition troop deaths have exceeded those occurring in Iraq.

    Many of the attacks against NATO-led and Afghan troops in southern and eastern Afghanistan are roadside bombs, and to confront that threat, U.S. military commanders have asked the Pentagon to send hundreds of MRAP armored vehicles, designed to withstand strong explosives, as quickly as possible to U.S. troops battling the Taliban.

    Defense sources said the request could include between 600 and 1,000 MRAPs -- Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, many originally destined for Iraq but not needed there as much now because of the dramatic drop in violence there.

    The MRAPs, which are the newest armored vehicles, have a V-shaped hull that helps deflect the blast of a roadside bomb.

    The troops in the east have been quite busy and they are using all of the equipment they have on hand to conduct their fight, officials have said.

    For example, when Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was in the east's Korengal Valley recently, the helicopters that dropped him off at a base immediately left to join in a firefight on the other side of the valley.

    --CNN's Barbara Starr contributed to this report

    All AboutAfghanistan • Iraq • The Taliban



    Find this article at:
    'Heroic' fighting repels Afghan militants - CNN.com

  • #2
    It's only a matter of time before this fight shifts inside the Pakistan border.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

    Comment


    • #3
      Typical action as in Kashmir.

      Sooner the conflict shifts to their sanctuaries, the better.

      China would be the only country that will object and then give some PC statements.

      Russians would love that Pakistan is ''taught a lesson'' for meddling earlier with them.
      Last edited by Ray; 15 Jul 08,, 05:37.


      "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

      I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

      HAKUNA MATATA

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ray View Post
        Typical action as in Kashmir.

        Sooner the conflict shifts to their sanctuaries, the better.

        China would be the only country that will object and then give some PC statements.

        Russians would love that Pakistan is ''taught a lesson'' for meddling earlier with them.
        US/Nato needs to navigate this tricky situation carefully and not let clever Taliban tactics of underming OEF succeed by pitting US allies against each other, resulting chaos will only benefit anti American radicals, Talibans etc.

        Russians and Indians were sort of allied against alliance of US/Pak and much of free world against Russian occupation of Afghanistan in 70s, 80s and their elements may try to settle old scrores by using US assets. We need to be smart and not expand conflicts where aviodable and not risk pushing whole region towards even greater instability than there is today.

        Comment


        • #5
          Provocation

          We've been intentionally provocative with these rifle platoons and companies. They're really, truly the pointy end of the bayonet and war out there is very much a small unit fight. This is the same turf as the infamous "Valley of Death"- Kunar, within spitting distance of Pakistan.

          It's a matter of faith that we won't be over-run but, until they actually try, you just don't know. To my knowledge, this is the first attempt by a company-sized element (or larger) to take on U.S. forces where we are most vulnerable. These platoons and companies are right in the hills, 24-7, and usually within a rock's throw of a small village. Most of the homes are field stone or mortar and, small or large, veritable fortresses. How the Taliban evacuated an adjacent village and occupy so close is interesting. I presume that the villagers either debunked the premises the previous afternoon or that night and the Taliban slipped in under darkness. Seems the attack was initiated at first light. I can only think that they did so as it would increase the effectiveness of their fires and felt protected both by their occupied homes and close proximity to the fort.

          This has been a long time coming by my recollection and not surprising. There's a clear difference here from operations last winter in Pakistan when an F.C. fortress was over-run and all troops disappeared or were killed. Here the taliban were defeated. I imagine that it was a hellacious fight done largely within effective range of an M-4 carbine (300 meters or closer).

          I bet it doesn't happen again anytime soon. Bet, if it does, the results will be even more lopsided. They caught us in-between and not quite up.

          It's seems to be getting real interesting out there.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • #6
            It's interesting, alright.

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh, and this is key: THEY don't think they lost. They failed to over-run the position and destroy all the friendlies, but they know they got the drop on us. They're all smiles and back-slaps at this point, and that counts for A LOT. And their casualties weren't as bad as the boys in Kabul claim. We may have hurt 'em some, but they are WAY more willing to take that kind o' punch than WE are.

              This is the kind of thing that gives their enterprise legs, juuuust enough endurance to keep the boys coming over the mountain and into the waiting arms of the Taliban. When the shine goes off the mullahs' reps, recruiting slows waaaay down. But when they look like rock stars, the lads can't wait to go a-jihadin' with a famous moodge.

              This was a big set-back, whether he held the hill or not. Coulda been worse, but it'll bring in new guys, weapons and money to the bad guys, so NEXT time...it may BE worse.

              Comment


              • #8
                Bluesman Reply

                "This was a big set-back, whether he held the hill or not. Coulda been worse, but it'll bring in new guys, weapons and money to the bad guys, so NEXT time...it may BE worse."

                A platoon's worth of effectives was rendered absolutely out of the fight through the course of the battle so, yeah, it was the real deal. I'm unsure, though, if it's for the worse in the bigger picture.

                My first inclination is that, generally, I like my odds if this is to be an emerging trend. Typically, we stand pretty tall when properly dug in and tied into our fire nets.

                These opportunities to garner enthusiastic recruits have been available up in the Korengal and neighboring valleys for some time and not pursued by the taliban, to my knowledge. Not on our side of the border anyway. Rocket and mortar fire, yeah. Occasional small-arms into a compound, yeah. But not an assault on a combat outpost-daylight to boot.

                I suppose that I feel better when these fcuks meet their maker up in those hills instead of down in the towns and farm villages further inland. It's a very good place for them to die. I think that this was unusual, though there will be lessons-learned out of the AARs.

                Parihaka's right, though (as usual). It's all about Pakistan. We've got, maybe, fifteen companies scattered up and down that border in CJTF-101's A.O. The Pakistani XII Corps w/ 80,000 troops is thirty miles away in Peshawar.

                What's wrong with this picture?
                "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by We The People View Post
                  US/Nato needs to navigate this tricky situation carefully and not let clever Taliban tactics of underming OEF succeed by pitting US allies against each other, resulting chaos will only benefit anti American radicals, Talibans etc.

                  Russians and Indians were sort of allied against alliance of US/Pak and much of free world against Russian occupation of Afghanistan in 70s, 80s and their elements may try to settle old scrores by using US assets. We need to be smart and not expand conflicts where aviodable and not risk pushing whole region towards even greater instability than there is today.
                  There was no Indian support to the Northern Alliance when the Mujahideens were engaging the Soviets. It was when the Taliban had taken over Afghanistan that India and Iran supported the Northern Alliance.

                  I don't understand what you mean by ''and their elements settling old scores''.

                  The United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan (UIF, Jabha-yi Muttahid-i Islami-yi Milli bara-yi Nijat-i Afghanistan), also known as the Northern Alliance (term used by the Western media), was a military-political umbrella organization created by the Islamic State of Afghanistan in 1996. The organization united various Afghan groups fighting against each other to fight the Taliban.

                  Three ethnic groups dominated the UIF: the Tajiks, who make up 27% of Afghanistan's population and are the second largest ethnic group, the Hazara and the Uzbeks, who each make up about 9% of the population.

                  Kunar is composed of a vast majority of Pashtuns. Pashtuns were not a part of the Northern Alliance, though a part of Kunar was under the UIF.

                  What exactly is your suggestion to not expand the conflict and maintain status quo and not pitting allies against each other. I am sure the ISAF would not be against the US.

                  Status quo has not given the success desired. The Taliban was testing the waters. Now, they will be gloating that they have killed 9 US soldiers and will want to come for more since they feel they have achieved a great deal. They jubilate with any kill and think they have won the world.

                  Offence is the best form of Defence. The sanctuaries have to be hit.


                  "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                  I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                  HAKUNA MATATA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                    It's only a matter of time before this fight shifts inside the Pakistan border.
                    And therefore only a matter of time before the situation gets worse.

                    Sounds great, does nothing.

                    Might actually happen, but lets see.
                    Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 15 Jul 08,, 14:14.
                    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                      And therefore only a matter of time before the situation gets worse.

                      Sounds great, does nothing.

                      Might actually happen, but lets see.
                      AM,

                      With the way the successive Pakistan govt has lost control over these badlands, forays by the ISAF maybe a blessing in disguise and for all you know the govt will give the Nelson's Eye and strong statements for effect.

                      Pakistan is well aware that the US has no territorial ambitions in Paksitan and so it is safe and hence it is to Pakistan's advantage that these terrorists are controlled and eliminated by the ISAF and there is no hue and cry that Moslems are killing Moslems!

                      Air strikes have collateral damage, ground action has minimal.


                      "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                      I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                      HAKUNA MATATA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        AM,

                        I want the NWFP stabilised so that Paksitan can get back to its favourite enemy - India and we have a nice slugfest once again.

                        Back to the good old days, what?

                        More fun on PFF.

                        with Hitler!

                        How's that Self confessed Salafi, Xylophone doing?


                        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                        HAKUNA MATATA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Taliban are very much well deeply entrenched into certain areas of Pakistan

                          BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Taleban set up 'Pakistan courts'

                          I think the only option for Pakistan is an all out war against the Taliban. By that I mean deploying some serious numbers in the region.

                          Whilst Iraq is getting better, Afghanistan seems to be getting worse. None of this would even be happening if Afghanistan had always been the #1 mission since 2001. But it wasn't.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by King Six View Post
                            The Taliban are very much well deeply entrenched into certain areas of Pakistan

                            BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Taleban set up 'Pakistan courts'

                            I think the only option for Pakistan is an all out war against the Taliban. By that I mean deploying some serious numbers in the region.

                            Whilst Iraq is getting better, Afghanistan seems to be getting worse. None of this would even be happening if Afghanistan had always been the #1 mission since 2001. But it wasn't.
                            To be fair to Pakistan, she is in a Catch 22.

                            With India in the East, she can hardly denude the frontiers there or move her reserves substantially to combat in the West.

                            To add to her woes, the terrorist hordes that Zia had unleashed are no longer under control and instead are gnawing at Pakistan's innards itself. The circle has come around!!

                            And worse is that there are those who are fooled by the foolish Mullahmen to believe that the terrorists are Islamic saviours! And so even the people are not with the govt, when it addresses the terrorists!

                            And the Mullahs hate the US and so they influence the thought amongst the literates and illiterates who are steeped in Islam!

                            A more pitiable situation from their govt's point of view cannot be more.

                            Their cup of woes brims over!

                            They are a helpless and lost people and so they clutch straws. They blame all for their woes and are fear struck to see reality lest they offend their Mullah and consequently, Islam!

                            I maybe an Indian, but the situation in Pakistan is becoming a conundrum beyond repair and it really worries me since a stable Pakistan is a safe India!
                            Last edited by Ray; 15 Jul 08,, 18:34.


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                              And therefore only a matter of time before the situation gets worse.

                              Sounds great, does nothing.

                              Might actually happen, but lets see.
                              At the moment there is a kind of stasis where the weakest party gets to call the shots. This is not a balance and whatever change occurs will in the long term be beneficial for both other parties. The old ideal of a greater Pakistan encompassing a puppet Afghanistan died on 9/11: there's no sense in gnawing on old threads.
                              Far better for Pakistan to encompass a future where Pashtun is synonymous with expensive hotels, nice carpets and a 'genuine ethnic experience'.
                              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                              Leibniz

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