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Thread: Police 'not human beings'

  1. #1
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Police 'not human beings'

    Police 'not human beings'


    Police are being accused of not being human after they waited 26 minutes before entering the liquor store where gunshot victim Navtej Singh lay fatally wounded on the floor.


    Mr Singh (30), a father of three, died in hospital after being shot in the chest with a .22 rifle during an armed robbery at his Manurewa liquor store on Saturday night.

    As Mr Singh fell to the floor, the gunman and his two accomplices rifled through the store's stock, taking boxes of alcohol and the contents of the till.

    Security camera footage shows them laughing as they leave.

    Police and ambulance officers were called to the scene by Mr Singh's colleague within minutes of the shooting, but it was another half an hour before paramedics were allowed into the scene.

    Mr Singh's grieving family believe that delay hindered the 30-year-old's chance of survival, and they want answers.

    Manurewa MP George Hawkins has also raised concerns about the delay, and plans to meet acting Police Commissioner Rob Pope today.

    However, police and ambulance officers have defended the time it took them to enter the liquor store, saying it was an armed situation and best practice procedures - which included waiting at a safe point - had to be followed.

    Detective Inspector Jim Gallagher said police had to establish the gunman's whereabouts to ensure no-one else's life was put at risk.

    They also had to wait for firearms so armed police could check the scene before letting anyone, including ambulance officers, into the store.

    However, family friend Sandeep Verma - who arrived minutes after the shooting - said he told 111 operators the armed robbers were long gone so there was no excuse for not letting help in sooner.

    "This is not acceptable. Everyone was calling cops and an ambulance from the car park so that means no-one is around," Mr Verma said.

    "If you are still waiting for police, then that means they are just abiding by the rules - they are not human beings. They just follow the rules which are on the books, that's it."

    While waiting for help, Mr Singh made his way to the toilet before returning to the floor, where he vomited blood several times.

    He was unable to lie still for long due to the growing pain and kept asking his wife - who had been called to the scene by the co-owner - to call for help.

    Mr Verma made several calls to 111 as his injured friend's condition deteriorated, but despite being able to hear the sirens down the road, help did not come as promised.

    "I said to them `he's vomiting blood' . . . they said the ambulance is just one minute away," said Mr Verma.

    "I was pretty much assured the ambulance was just around the corner but they didn't arrive."

    When asked if having an ambulance there sooner would have saved Mr Singh's life Mr Verma replied: "Yeah, sure."

    "If ambulance would have come in 10 to 15 minutes then I think there was chances of his survival."

    Mr Gallagher said there would be a review into the response time but he maintained police did their best given they had to follow procedures.

    St John Northern Regional operations manager Gary Salmon said waiting at the safe point was difficult for paramedics, but it was absolutely vital given the dangers involved in responding to a shooting.

    "This is one of the worst situations our crews can be in. They are surrounded by potential danger, they have a patient which is known to have been shot . . . and yet we can't get to them.

    "We are terribly sorry for the feelings of the family and we understand entirely how they must feel knowing that we are so close and yet not there, but the problem for us is we have to know the zone is safe."

    Mr Salmon said it was difficult to say what would have happened if paramedics had reached Mr Singh sooner.

    "All I can say is we had a very highly qualified and experienced crew with the patient as soon as we possibly could."

    Mr Salmon planned to visit Mr Singh's family last night to explain why and offer his condolences.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  2. #2
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    EDITORIAL: Disguising the issue of violence

    09.06.2008
    LOUIS PIERARD
    THE organisers of last month's National Hoodie day - and in fact everyone who donned hoodies to send a fun message challenging those who, apparently, judge all youth by the worst example - should study the camera footage of the Saturday robbery of the Riverton Liquor Shop in Manurewa.

    They might notice that what they consider to be a badge of prejudice was the only conspicuous feature in the raid. One of three armed robbers executed (there is no other term for it) the store's co-owner Navtej Singh. At the time, Mr Singh had his hands in the air and was complying with the gunman's orders.



    The police description of the killer and his companions is restricted to the type of hoodies they were wearing because their faces were so well concealed from the security camera. It is not because all those who wear hoodies are potential hoodlums, but that hoodies are an asset for anyone intent on getting away with a crime, which exposes the banality of an endeavour to ``redeem' the garment in some kind of celebration of youth.

    Some might argue that the shooting of Mr Singh raises doubts over the wisdom of standard police advice to follow the orders of armed robbers and never resist. (It could also raise questions about the usefulness of the legislation governing firearms - did the killer have a current licence?)

    While resistance in the event of such a raid might raise the stakes for robbers - the risk could cause them to think twice - it would definitely dramatically increase the risk of death and injury to victims.

    Saturday's killing might have been an aberration. Even so, there are worrying signs of growing callousness among criminals. The violence in Hastings this past week, in which three people were injured in unprovoked and vicious attacks by gangs, will have contributed to public unease. Obedience by the law-abiding to the violent demands by thugs depends exclusively on the only effective alternative to resistance, which is confidence in the state's ability to protect the people. If that assurance is not forthcoming, then police may have to expect more citizens to take the law into their own hands.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  3. #3
    Senior Contributor
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    Solution:



    +

    - for every officer while on duty

    = less incidents like this.

    Ive said it before and im sure I will say it again. The vast majority of US law enforcement officers never have to shoot their sidearms or department issued as needed rifles/submachine guns/shotguns except on the shooting range yet they still carry them. Why? Because you never know when you need it ... its better to have it and never have it use it then not have it and need it; the Armed Offenders Squad and authorized firearms officers are useless if they are a half hour away. When you need a firearm you need it right then and there.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    It appears that the New Zealand Police and the media are still in some sort of denial about the neccessity of having all police armed.
    The poor bugger who died while the Police and Ambo's waited in a "safe zone" may have lived if the Police were armed, had the training and the resultant will to go in immeadiately.

    The story below shows how futile and most likely, how frustrating it must be for your Police.

    Cornered cops hurled rocks
    By LEIGH VAN DER STOEP - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 09 September 2007

    Unarmed police officers were forced to resort to throwing stones at a dangerous fugitive who fired a pistol at them.


    Richard Alan Duthie, 40, allegedly shot at two West Auckland police officers on Monday and was last night on the run.

    He has been wanted by police since May after failing to appear in the Rotorua High Court on drugs charges and is described as armed and dangerous.

    On Monday morning, the officers stopped Duthie driving a blue Holden Commodore in Henderson.

    He gave the officers a false name and drove off. Police then pursued him into Swanson, where he lost control of the car and crashed into a ditch.

    After warning the officers he was armed, he opened fire on them.

    Sources told the Sunday Star-Times the officers had no way to defend themselves. They resorted to picking up rocks and throwing them at the gunman.

    The officers went beyond the call of duty and should be commended for their bravery under such adverse conditions, one police source said.

    It is understood the officers were "gutted" about the incident.

    The shooting came less than a week after tasers were withdrawn from use at the end of a one-year police trial.

    Police Association president Greg O'Connor said while tasers would not have made a difference IN this case, it demonstrated the dangers police were facing in the field.

    It was "ludicrous" to expect officers to come up against armed and dangerous criminals every day with no effective way of defending themselves or the public.
    Source; Cornered cops hurled rocks - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz

    The issue of disguises also needs to be addressed.
    In South Australia at least, the wearing of motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, the above mentioned hoods and indeed anything else that covers the majority of the head is frowned on and any business is entittled to ask that it be removed or deny entry.
    The public are quite understanding about it and compliance is rarely an issue.

    Cheers.

  5. #5
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    Some might argue that the shooting of Mr Singh raises doubts over the wisdom of standard police advice to follow the orders of armed robbers and never resist. (It could also raise questions about the usefulness of the legislation governing firearms - did the killer have a current licence?)
    OH! I'm sure! Just like he had a licence to rob liquor stores. And what the heck is the deal with unarmed cops? Throwing rocks! WTF? Where has the common sense gone? I've said it before, I'll say it again, "when seconds count....the police are only minutes away!!"

    And they might have rocks...oh my!

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