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Why do Aussies and Kiwis hold grudges about Douglas MacArthur?

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  • Why do Aussies and Kiwis hold grudges about Douglas MacArthur?

    I admit I am a Douglas MacArthur partisan. I have been a fan of his for years, and have read a great deal about this fascinating individual. I find it tremendously amusing that the Australians and New Zealanders are still peeved about MacArthur for making comments that did not flatter them.

    Among these was MacArthur’s scathing remarks about the poor fighting ability of the ANZAC troops, his statements about the quality of Australian food Americans had to eat, and his demeaning remarks about the crudeness of Australian women folk. And the General voiced his opinion of Australia’s lackadaisical attitude toward the war in general.

    ANZACs also continue to harp on the fact that they were the first force in the Pacific campaign in World War II to defeat a Japanese land invasion. They still get mad because MacArthur called ANZAC victories as "Allied victories" as opposed to Australian and New Zealander victories. Is that not being a little petty and small?

  • #2
    Mainly because he was a Meat Grinder.

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    • #3
      Apart from the meat grinder part, it's the first I've heard of any of this, maybe BigFella can shed some light.
      I do know that MacArthur and P.M. Curtin got on like a house on fire, and that MacArthurs commander General Blamey requested that the 41st US infantry(a national guard unit) be replaced with the 21st Australian Infantry Brigade, as "he knew they would fight".
      Also, given that New Zealander's had sod all to do with MacArthur, concentrating as we were in fighting in Nth Africa and at home supplying food to both the Pacific theatre and Britain, why would we hold antipathy toward him?

      Are you sure you've actually read about him?
      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

      Leibniz

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
        Apart from the meat grinder part, it's the first I've heard of any of this, maybe BigFella can shed some light.
        I do know that MacArthur and P.M. Curtin got on like a house on fire, and that MacArthurs commander General Blamey requested that the 41st US infantry(a national guard unit) be replaced with the 21st Australian Infantry Brigade, as "he knew they would fight".
        Also, given that New Zealander's had sod all to do with MacArthur, concentrating as we were in fighting in Nth Africa and at home supplying food to both the Pacific theatre and Britain, why would we hold antipathy toward him?

        Are you sure you've actually read about him?
        I read MacArthur was extremely critical of the performance of the Australian troops in the early days of the New Guinea campaign. The big Mac was not convinced of the efficiency of the Australian units and thought that the Aussies were lousy at jungle fighting. In the later stages of the Pacific campaign, MacArthur also wanted to use the Australian Army in a logistical support capacity, and was more inclined to use American troops in combat roles later on in the Pacific campaign. Of course Field Marshal Thomas Blamey was successful in thwarting MacArthur's desire to have only American troops engage in combat operations, but the clash caused bad feelings between MacArthur and the Australians.

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        • #5
          In the main from what i can gather from various books, it was because of his inability to recognise reality and his unceasing self aggrandizement.
          The size of his ego was said to put mountain ranges to shame.
          For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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          • #6
            It is odd that MacArthur had such a bad opinion of Australian soldiers. The quality of Australian fighting men during the war was held in very high regard. Odd, but it is probably not out of MacArthur's character.
            All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
            -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Albert1981 View Post
              I read MacArthur was extremely critical of the performance of the Australian troops in the early days of the New Guinea campaign. The big Mac was not convinced of the efficiency of the Australian units and thought that the Aussies were lousy at jungle fighting. In the later stages of the Pacific campaign, MacArthur also wanted to use the Australian Army in a logistical support capacity, and was more inclined to use American troops in combat roles later on in the Pacific campaign. Of course Field Marshal Thomas Blamey was successful in thwarting MacArthur's desire to have only American troops engage in combat operations, but the clash caused bad feelings between MacArthur and the Australians.
              I am aware that MacArthur had an abrasive persona that tended to get him in strife with both piers and higher authorities however I have not seen written anywhere authorative, the points you have mentioned.

              Please supply some links to articles or books on the subject.

              Cheers.

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              • #8
                MacArthur was the Patton of the Pacific Rim. The ANZAC's who fought with the British Army were la creme de la creme. Heroes one and all. Both in WW1 and WW2. I have nothing but praise for them, especially those who endured the terrible conditions of Burma.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by captain View Post
                  I am aware that MacArthur had an abrasive persona that tended to get him in strife with both piers and higher authorities however I have not seen written anywhere authorative, the points you have mentioned.

                  Please supply some links to articles or books on the subject.

                  Cheers.
                  Two articles I found on the subject:

                  Thomas Blamey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  Kokoda Track campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  It was clear to MacArthur thought "aggressive leadership was lacking amongst the Australian units". Even Field Marshal Blamey was extremely critical of the ANZAC performance.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Elbmek View Post
                    MacArthur was the Patton of the Pacific Rim. The ANZAC's who fought with the British Army were la creme de la creme. Heroes one and all. Both in WW1 and WW2. I have nothing but praise for them, especially those who endured the terrible conditions of Burma.
                    I agree. Two of the best US military commanders of the 20th century. And two of the bravest as well. The two actually worked very well together. Their collaboration broke the back of the communist-sympathizing Bonus Army in 1932.
                    Last edited by Albert1981; 26 May 08,, 16:26. Reason: I want to add more notes

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Albert1981 View Post
                      Two articles I found on the subject:

                      Thomas Blamey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Kokoda Track campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      It was clear to MacArthur thought "aggressive leadership was lacking amongst the Australian units". Even Field Marshal Blamey was extremely critical of the ANZAC performance.
                      Well there you go, a piece of history I was unaware of, thanks Albert1981:)
                      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                      Leibniz

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                        Well there you go, a piece of history I was unaware of, thanks Albert1981:)
                        It is my pleasure. I am not saying that Australians were not brave soldiers, I just found the American performance in New Guinea was more effective than that of the ANZAC one. To this day I believe many Australians still resent MacArthur because of his attempts to push the ANZAC units into a supporting role as opposed to a combat role.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Albert1981 View Post
                          I agree. Two of the best US military commanders of the 20th century. And two of the bravest as well. The two actually worked very well together. Their collaboration broke the back of the communist-sympathizing Bonus Army in 1932.
                          I have an extremely high opinion of Patton, I don't share the same for MacArthur. If there is any General in the PTO of worth, it is Bill Slim. MacArthur is not even in the same league.

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                          • #14
                            Yes, read Defeat into Victory Albert, simply the finest most honest general's memoir ever. An amazing man and proof for all of us that sometimes even good guys win.
                            To quote the introduction, "It stands as a monument to a good soldier and a better man"

                            Amazon.com: Defeat Into Victory: Battling Japan in Burma and India, 1942-1945: William Slim: Books
                            Last edited by bolo121; 26 May 08,, 17:27.
                            For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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                            • #15
                              I have heard of William Slim. I know many military experts regard him as the best British commander of the Pacific War. And his record in the Far East is indeed impressive. But I do not believe the campaigns he led in Burma were not nearly as important and decisive as the island hopping campaign of MacArthur, King, Krueger, Nimitz, Kenney and Halsey which broke Japanese air and naval power. I even believe MacArthur's defense of the Philippines was conducted masterfully (not including the unfortunate incident at Clark Air Base of course).

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