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  • Wanted: Powerful engine for LCA

    SOURCE:- :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

    Wanted: Powerful engine for LCA

    NEW DELHI: India is hunting for a more powerful, modern engine for its indigenous fighter, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, which is under development in Bangalore, even as the Indian Air Force is thinking of doubling its order for aircraft from 20 to 40.

    Dependable sources said the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the lead agency for developing Tejas, has appointed an “empowered committee” to consider inducting a new, more powerful engine. Eurojet, which makes the engines for Eurofighter, and GE, which has supplied the existing GE-F404 engines, are among the companies that the government is talking to. Tejas is expected to replace the MIG-21
    fleet of the IAF.

    The IAF expressed its reservations about the thrust of the existing GE-F404 engines, after the weight of the plane went up from 8,000 kg to10,000 kg. The weight increase and other factors had contributed to the trial flight performances not coming up to IAF’s expectations.

    This has forced the government to look at a more powerful engine. In fact, the effort to get a better engine for LCA has been going on with several twists and turns. The indigenous engine Kaveri, originally meant to power the aircraft, is not fully developed yet. The GE-404’s deliveries were severely affected by sanctions imposed after the 1998 nuclear tests, contributing to the overall delay of LCA’s development.

    As more and more equipment was incorporated into the LCA its weight went up by almost 2000 kg. “It is the most densely packed aircraft in its class,” says a senior official associated with the project.

    To improve LCA’s performance, the project team is trying out many things: optimisation of drag, reduction of weight and a powerful engine. For the time being, GE has improved its engine and supplied a better one, customised for India.. The first LCA with this engine, called GE F-404-IN20. carried out its first flight last week.

    Sources said the IAF, having already ordered 20 LCAs, is “inclined” to order 20 more, fitted with the improved engines. The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which would manufacture the LCA, is ready to start delivery in 2011. The HAL is confident of delivering six to eight LCAs a year. If the order for additional 20 comes, that would help HAL keep the assembly lines open for over six years, during which further improvements would help LCA shape into a great fighter, according to those involved in the project believe.

  • #2
    Is EJ230 in the running for this? I'm not sure if the EJ200 will have the required thrust in time.
    Market Economy is unfair: Rob Sugden

    Comment


    • #3
      It is not only a question of thrust but also a question of fitting the engine on a plane that was designed for the F-404 class/Kaveri engines. Any other engines (bar perhaps the F series) will need rework on the bird. The 2000kg is being thrown around because of all the equipment that is being proposed to be fitted in such as the Israeli radar and better avionics....

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      • #4
        The Hindu : National : Eurojet Turbo pitches for its engine for Tejas


        Eurojet Turbo pitches for its engine for Tejas

        Ravi Sharma

        IAF had said Tejas with 85 kN GE engine cannot meet air staff needs

        Eurojet gives 90 kN thrust though IAF wants a 100 kN engine

        BANGALORE: A nine-member delegation from Eurojet Turbo, leading European military aero-engine consortium, on Wednesday concluded a three-day “workshop” for the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), on the feasibility of their engine being used to power the underpowered Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

        The workshop could be a precursor to the ADA — designers of the LCA — deciding on a new engine for the Tejas.

        Eurojet, which is responsible for development, production, support, maintenance and sales of the new generation EJ200 engine, explained to officials from the ADA and the Air Force and Navy’s LCA project teams, how its engine could be adapted for the Tejas.

        The workshop comes in the wake of an Air Force communication to the Ministry of Defence that the Tejas, with its present engine — the General Electric manufactured GE F404 IN20 — cannot meet air staff requirements. The Air Force’s reasons that the thrust (with afterburner) generated by the GE F404 IN20 — 85 kilo Newtons (kN) — is adequate for an aircraft of eight tonnes, but with the Tejas being overweight by nearly two tonnes it requires a much more powerful engine. The Air Force wants an engine that is capable of delivering a thrust of 100 kN.

        Eurojet, which had made available sophisticated data on the EJ200 to the ADA, has offered to transfer all technology — including the key core technology — on the engine to India. The engine will eventually be manufactured in India. It also claims that the EJ200 meets the Tejas’ technical requirements and very little modifications will be needed to house its engine. Though Eurojet is confident that its engine will be chosen by the ADA, it will have to beat the challenge from GE, which had made a preliminary presentation on the GE414.

        Sources in the ADA said that while the EJ200, with a thrust of 90 kN, brings in the latest technology in combat aircraft engines and is lighter and smaller, the heavier GE414 is capable of producing more thrust (97.5 kN). But Eurojet officials said the EJ200, which is the only five-stage compression engine in the world today, has the potential to meet the Air Force’s requirement of 100 kN.

        The workshop was also an indication that the ADA has accepted the Air Force’s contention that the Tejas in its present configuration is unacceptable.

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        • #5
          The workshop was also an indication that the ADA has accepted the Air Force’s contention that the Tejas in its present configuration is unacceptable.


          LOL

          I love Indian journalistic spin.

          Comment


          • #6
            Eurofighter are seeking to include India in tranche 3 (MRCA) and expand the capability of the EJ200 (using a new low pressure fan?) to 100kN (afterburning) for LCA and tranche 3.

            However the four existing partners are looking to limit costs on the tranche 3 orders they have almost certainly committed to (a heavy pull-out penalty fee).

            How big an order from India would offset the development costs of the EJ230? We have seen in Singapore that procurements based on future capabilities are less likely. Will GE aim to limit development of Typhoon's EJ200 by subsidising any bid based on the GE414?
            Market Economy is unfair: Rob Sugden

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            • #7
              Current scenario hints at the GE414 coming out as the favourites, though in its prelims.
              sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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              • #8
                SOURCE:- :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

                LCA dogged by engine power limitations

                Special Correspondent

                NEW DELHI: The first batch of light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas would carry “limited weaponry” because of engine power limitations, said highly placed Defence Ministry sources.

                The Indian Air Force (IAF) has placed orders for 20 LCAs and agreed in principle to take another 20.

                “There is no way you can have any other engine for the first 40 LCAs,” said the sources. The LCA was undergoing tests fitted with the American GE-404 engine with a capacity of 80 to 85 kilo newtons (kn).

                The IAF, on the other hand, wanted the capacity to be 95-100 kn, the same as the ones powering the F-16 fighters. “If we buy a more powerful engine, the aircraft structure will have to be completely changed. This will not be possible with the initial lot,” the sources said.

                The initial operational clearance is slated for 2010 end but besides the engine issue, the LCA is facing problems on two other fronts — the angle of attack and the landing gear. While the angle of attack achieved by LCA is 17 degrees, the IAF wants it to be 21.

                In order to fit a more powerful engine in the future, the government is considering both direct import and co-development options. In case the import route is preferred, the contenders will be General Electric’s GE-414 and the European EZ 200. The IAF has indicated its preference for the former.

                For co-development, the choice will be between Snecma of France and the Russian NPO Saturn.

                Comment


                • #9
                  SOURCE:- :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

                  Move to seek Boeing help for LCA test programme

                  avi Sharma

                  The consultancy will need the clearance of the U.S. Department of State

                  It will help curtail number of sorties during flight test

                  It will shorten design, development phase of LCA


                  BANGALORE: The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has moved forward to sign up with American aerospace major Boeing for consultancy on their Tejas Light Combat Aircraft’s (LCA) flight test programme. The tie-up suggests that the Bangalore based Indian defence laboratory is unable to, within the required time span, complete the testing on its own.

                  The tie-up which as per the United States laws concerning sale/consultancy of services and products in areas of defence will first have to be cleared by the U.S. Department of State. It is envisaged that the multi million dollar consultancy will shorten the design and development phase of the LCA.

                  The ADA sources told The Hindu that that the consultancy would help curtail the number of sorties that were to be flown in each phase of the LCA’s flight testing as the ADA attempts to obtain initial operational clearance (IOC) for the aircraft. The ADA’s latest revised schedule speaks of a 2010 deadline for the IOC.

                  The Boeing, with sufficient experience on flight test programmes like their F-18 Hornet, will provide the ADA with crucial inputs on which critical points of the flying envelope flight tests would have to be conducted.

                  This would avoid unnecessary flights and testing out every point of the flight envelope, saving on both costs, and even more importantly, time, enabling the ADA to compress the LCA’s flight test programme.

                  Under the agreement flight test data generated during flights undertaken by the Indian Air Force pilots attached to the National Flight Test Centre, would be handed over to the Boeing engineers for analysis. The Boeing would then advise the ADA what should be done, they said.

                  The consultancy is for a period of 42 months, with the option for the ADA to extend it if they need to.

                  The ADA over two years ago sent out a request for proposal to a number of global aerospace players including the Boeing, the Lockheed Martin, the Dassault and the Saab Gripen seeking this consultancy.

                  Official sources also said that the ADA had sought proposals from the Boeing and other aerospace players for help on the naval variant of the Tejas.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    SOURCE:- :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

                    India to launch Light Combat Aircraft Tejas by 2010


                    NEW DELHI, June 8 (KUNA) -- In an effort to add firepower to its Air Force, Indias is developing -- Tejas-- a Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is expected to be launched by 2010. LCA was in the final stages of testing and by 2010 it was expected to be launched, a source in the Indian Defene Ministry told KUNA here Sunday. After LCAs are launched, the MiG-21 fighter jets of the Indian Air Force (IAF) would be gradually phased out, the source added. Tejas is being developed by Indias Defence Research Development Organisation. Tejas underwent hot weather flight trials at Air Force Station in the Western Indian city of Nagpur recently, the source said, adding, the trials were planned at Nagpur because of the high ambient temperature conditions prevailing there during this period. The aim of the trials was to check operation of the aircraft systems under high ambient temperature conditions of over 40 deg C, representative of the stringent conditions the aircraft would be expected to operate in, after induction into the IAF.

                    "All aircraft systems, specifically the avionics system, flight control system and air conditioning system of Tejas were tested extensively during the trials and functioned satisfactorily on ground as well in flight," the source said, adding, a total of seven flights of four hours duration were flown at Nagpur on two prototype aircraft PV2 and PV3. The tests included flights at 200 meters above the ground with a speed up to 1000 km per hour.

                    "It was the first time that the Tejas flew a non-stop distance of about 1, 000 km from Southern Indian city of Bangalore to Nagpur. This was possible due to the presence of external fuel tanks on the aircraft which were integrated recently. This was also the first time that the Tejas aircraft had been flown at such high ambient temperature conditions. A first look at the test data indicated that all the trial objectives were met satisfactorily," the source informed. The successful completion of the trial marked a significant step towards attainment of all important initials operational clearance and subsequent induction into the squadron service with the IAF. Tejas is now planned for delivering precision guided bombs in the deserts of Western Indian state of Rajasthan, later this year.

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                    • #11
                      SOURCE:- :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

                      Production version of LCA 'Tejas' takes to skies

                      Bangalore | Monday, Jun 16 2008 IST


                      The much-awaited maiden flight of LSP-2 (Limited Series Production) of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft 'Tejas' was successfully carried out at the HAL airport here.

                      The state-of-the-art aircraft, which was flown by National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) test pilot Wg Cdr N Tiwari, took off majestically and flew for 30 minutes at 1.1 Mach crossing 1,200 kmph. As had been the practice, the maiden flight of this aircraft was chased by another Tejas aircraft PV3, piloted by Wg Cdr RR Tyagi.

                      Speaking to UNI here, Mr L S Subramanium, Chief of LCA Division of HAL, the public sector aircraft manufacturer, said it was a key phase of the jet fighter. So far, the prototypes had completed 900 flights.

                      A HAL release here said that eventhough the aircraft was ready for its maiden flight last week itself, the flight could not take off because of the pre-monsoon weather prevailing in Bangalore.

                      The flight was conducted by NFTC of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) from its telemetry station, with Wg Cdr M Prabhu, flight test engineer, as the test director. Today's maiden flight of LSP-2 was significant on several accounts. This is the second limited series production aircraft that rolled out of the LSP hangar of HAL. It is the first aircraft powered by the new GE404-IN20 engine and also had a new ejection seat version, the Martin Baker Mk 16LG, the release said.

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                      • #12
                        SOURCE:- :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

                        Second Tejas aircraft breaks sound barrier on maiden flight

                        16 Jun, 2008, 2314 hrs IST, IANS

                        BANGALORE: The second indigenously developed light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas flew at supersonic speed on its maiden test flight over Bangalore skies on Monday evening.

                        "This is the second time a Tejas aircraft has flown at a speed of 1.1 Mach (1,320 km per hour) up to an altitude of 9.5 km in a maiden flight lasting 43 minutes," the state-run Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) said in a statement on late Monday.

                        The limited series production aircraft (LSP2) was flown by ADA's national flight test centre (NFTC) pilot Wing Commander N Tiwari. As is the practice, the multi-role fighter aircraft was chased by another Tejas prototype version three (PV-3) piloted by Wing Commander R R Tyagi.

                        The flight test was monitored from NFTC's telemetry station at the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) airport in the eastern suburb of the city.

                        "The maiden flight of LSP2 is significant on several accounts. This is the second limited series production aircraft that rolled out of the LSP hangar of HAL. It is also the first aircraft powered by the new GE404-IN20 engine and has a new ejection seat version - the Martin Baker Mk 16LG," the aerospace agency said.

                        The first eight Tejas aircraft is to be delivered to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Indian Navy between 2010 and 2012 and will be fitted with the IN20 engines from the US-based General Electric.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Deltacamelately View Post
                          Current scenario hints at the GE414 coming out as the favourites, though in its prelims.
                          I was gonna suggest the GE F414 but, obviously, somebody else already has; you get the reliability and stall-resistance of the -404, with more power and better sfc.
                          "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                          • #14
                            Is GE still in the assisting role for the LCA engine? I heard that EDS were helping out now. Is EJ200/EJ230 more likely?
                            Market Economy is unfair: Rob Sugden

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