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  • #46
    Originally posted by gabriel View Post


    Lee-Metford rifles were produced from 1884 to 1896, not in time for the anglo-zulu war but close.

    Mauser 1871(84) also had an 8 round tubular magazine in 1884.

    1879 also saw the Lee Rifle (adopted by the USN a few years later)

    But widespread use of magazine fed rifles for infantry formations was rare until 1900.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by zraver View Post
      But widespread use of magazine fed rifles for infantry formations was rare until 1900.
      I am well aware of that.
      However the Winchester rifle alone was produced in enough numbers.(even the Sioux had some at Little Big Horn).
      In what way is a Martini-Henry Mk I-IV superior to a Winchester 1873 rifle
      ?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by gabriel View Post
        I am well aware of that.
        However the Winchester rifle alone was produced in enough numbers.(even the Sioux had some at Little Big Horn).
        In what way is a Martini-Henry Mk I-IV superior to a Winchester 1873 rifle
        ?
        Winchester 1873 44-40 WCF pistol cartridge- low energy and limited range. 217gr bullet at 376m/s delivering 734 foot pounds of impact force per wiki

        Martini-Henry .577/450MH rifle round- lots of energy and long range
        480gr bullet traveling 410m/s delivering 1,943 foot pounds of force.

        The Martini-Henry is more than twice as powerful

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        • #49
          Originally posted by gabriel View Post


          Lee-Metford rifles were produced from 1884 to 1896, not in time for the anglo-zulu war but close.
          You hit on it...they were beginning to be produced but it was slow to enter service. Some British Army units were still using durign the 2d Boer War. And it was more of a bridging system between the older breech loading blackpowder weapons and the newer, magazine fed bolt action rifles of the early 20th Century.

          The Henry rifle saw limited use in the American Civil War (ACW). It had a tendency to to jam and since the tubular magazine was had no wooden handle it became too hot to handle after a short time. It was impractical as an Infantry weapon. It was used in limited numbers by the Cavalry....very few Infantry regiments were equipped with the Henry or other repeating arms. It was pretty universally the .58 Cal Springfield, .577 Cal Enfield or the .54 Cal Lorenz as the STANDARD fire arm.

          As for the Sioux using the 73 Winchester....that was a civilian weapon, not a military fire arm. The Army used the M1873 .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield Rifle and Carbine for its Infantry and Cavalry. These were replaced by the .30-40 Cal M1892 Krag Rifle and Carbine in 1892.

          My point being about all of this? The 24th Foot had about the standard military rifle for the time frame in history....a single shot, breech loading, blackpowder weapon. The Chassepot and Gewher 71 were ahead of them but they were the leading wave of bolt action rifles. Wide use of magazine weapons would not come until around 1890.
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Winchester 1873 44-40 WCF pistol cartridge- low energy and limited range. 217gr bullet at 376m/s delivering 734 foot pounds of impact force per wiki

            Martini-Henry .577/450MH rifle round- lots of energy and long range
            480gr bullet traveling 410m/s delivering 1,943 foot pounds of force.

            The Martini-Henry is more than twice as powerful
            Because one was a carbine and one was a military rifle...one for hunting and one for killing men.
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
              Because one was a carbine and one was a military rifle...one for hunting and one for killing men.
              Later lever action guns were chambered for rifle and true carbine rounds, but generally I agree with you. Using a rifle chambered in a pistol rounds even a repeater has too many drawbacks.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                You hit on it...they were beginning to be produced but it was slow to enter service. Some British Army units were still using durign the 2d Boer War. And it was more of a bridging system between the older breech loading blackpowder weapons and the newer, magazine fed bolt action rifles of the early 20th Century.

                The Henry rifle saw limited use in the American Civil War (ACW). It had a tendency to to jam and since the tubular magazine was had no wooden handle it became too hot to handle after a short time. It was impractical as an Infantry weapon. It was used in limited numbers by the Cavalry....very few Infantry regiments were equipped with the Henry or other repeating arms. It was pretty universally the .58 Cal Springfield, .577 Cal Enfield or the .54 Cal Lorenz as the STANDARD fire arm.

                As for the Sioux using the 73 Winchester....that was a civilian weapon, not a military fire arm. The Army used the M1873 .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield Rifle and Carbine for its Infantry and Cavalry. These were replaced by the .30-40 Cal M1892 Krag Rifle and Carbine in 1892.

                My point being about all of this? The 24th Foot had about the standard military rifle for the time frame in history....a single shot, breech loading, blackpowder weapon. The Chassepot and Gewher 71 were ahead of them but they were the leading wave of bolt action rifles. Wide use of magazine weapons would not come until around 1890.
                However the Ottoman Empire made good use of Winchester Model 66s at Plevina.http://www.militaryrifles.com/Turkey...evnaDelay.html

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ghost88 View Post
                  However the Ottoman Empire made good use of Winchester Model 66s at Plevina.http://www.militaryrifles.com/Turkey...evnaDelay.html
                  Against russians and romanians but...
                  We won .
                  Last edited by gabriel; 26 Feb 09,, 17:36.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ghost88 View Post
                    However the Ottoman Empire made good use of Winchester Model 66s at Plevina.http://www.militaryrifles.com/Turkey...evnaDelay.html
                    And the 37th MASS made good use of the Henrys at Cedar Creek and Wilder's Brigade of Mounted Rifles did great work with Revolving Colts at Chickamauga and the Atlanta Campaign. But those were not in the mainstream.
                    Last edited by Albany Rifles; 26 Feb 09,, 19:24.
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      Winchester 1873 44-40 WCF pistol cartridge- low energy and limited range. 217gr bullet at 376m/s delivering 734 foot pounds of impact force per wiki

                      Martini-Henry .577/450MH rifle round- lots of energy and long range
                      480gr bullet traveling 410m/s delivering 1,943 foot pounds of force.

                      The Martini-Henry is more than twice as powerful
                      Zraver, i understand that the Martini-Henry has more stooping power , but the same thing could be said about the AKM compared with the M-16.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Thought this thread was about sieges etc.!!!!!!!!

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                        • #57
                          Hence my post #49
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Chaobam Armour View Post
                            Thought this thread was about sieges etc.!!!!!!!!
                            I admit that i started to go offtopic a bit, but during siege batles in wich the defender is usualy outnumberd a rapid fire weapon is very usefull.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              So is a Claymore or off-route mine!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Having a winchester weapon wich uses a pistol ammo has one important advantage:
                                No need of two different type of ammo, the supply route is cut...

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