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Thread: China-Tibet Threads

  1. #46
    In Memoriam Military Professional dave lukins's Avatar
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    OoE..Sir, I raise a glass of Glengraig to your patience.

  2. #47
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    So that all may understand, even the new Chinese posters.

    We are well aware that there is a concentrated campaign starting from anti-CNN to spam WAB. That is their ONLY intent. They are not here to discuss. They are here to dictate.

    As you are well aware, WAB is dominated by soldier thinking, if not by airmen, soldiers, and sailors themselves. We do not appreciate people telling us how to think. After the last spam from people who do not even have the courtesy to communicate in English on an English forum, my tolerance for this horse puckey is at an end.

    Be that as it may, we have not instituted mass banning and we will not. We are demanding, however, that new posters step up to the plate and provide VERIFIABLE FACTS instead of ad-homeni opinions. To say all 1.3 Billion Chinese support the cause is pure cow droppings. No one can point to a poll saying such things and we will not accept that as truth. We could and do accept the protests to French businesses in China as fact.

    That being said, I am extremely disappointed in the lot of new Chinese posters. Very few have the convictions of their beliefs and fewer still are capable of having their convictions challenged.

    I would like to thank the Brigadier who provided the bulk of the challenge to the new Chinese posters. Few stood up. Those who did are still here. Those who didn't are gone or on their way out.

    Maybe if there was no campaign from anti-CNN, we would be a bit more flexible but we don't appreciate people who wants nothing more than to silence disagreement through shouting instead of facts.

    And just an FYI, Mobme, I've also banned pro-Tibetan posters for exactly the same kind of thing.
    Dave and Colonel,

    At the outset let me clarify, I have no agenda out here,

    I am here to learn and be more tolerant as I learn of peoples and their ways.

    I came on this forum to contest an incorrect view. The Colonel is aware of it and we debated it out. The Colonel was magnanimous and a gentleman and he publicly apologised. Some may feel the victory was mine. I am sorry to say, it wasn't. It was the Colonel's who was magnanimous and a gentleman. I won in a way, since I was educated in the exchange.

    This forum was quite an difficult one to be in for non US posters. I was nearly banned. But, even though many would not like it, but Ironman (elevated to Ironduke) humoured me and allowed me my survival. I am now where I am because of their (the forum's) tolerance to differing views. The CCP Chinese must understand this because I survived in the pro Bush and pro Iraq era, when anything said against was heretical!!

    I have no qualms with the pro Chinese statements. Indeed I welcome them. It gives me an insight.

    But propaganda is not what I can digest.

    What do I mean by propaganda? It is like stating that because 1.3 billion Chinese are saying so, and so it is right! Heavens, it is like suggesting a condom off policy to prove one is right!!

    I have nothing against Mobme. I only desire facts and not conjectures to say that the forum is biased.

    I have seen many a biased fora, but WAB is not one of them!! I can swear an oath on the Bible in any court to say that. At least so far as it is now!
    Last edited by Ray; 20 Apr 08, at 00:16.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  3. #48
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    [QUOTE=dave lukins;485216]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post

    Gentlemen, the last thing we want, or need, is WABbers to get at each others throats. If there is a problem do as you should ..air your views with the Mod's. Fighting each other will solve nothing and the Posts that started it will have long gone. Deep breaths and start again please Gents)
    I have the greatest respect for my superiors, so I think I should reply to sir Ray's post, if thats ok with you brother.

  4. #49
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    [QUOTE=Ray;485202]

    No China bashing should not be done.
    Ofcourse not.

    There can be no limit if nonsense without facts and links are avoided as proof. Or do you suggest that what the Chinese have to say is the truth and others are paid capitalist agents and running dogs of Uncle Sam?

    Such a slur was addressed and implied to the Indians by your beloved Chinese.
    If China is my beloved, so is India, sir.

    Were where you then, Mr FairPlay?
    I was not needed sir, as you see you had many others by your side, but this post was not intended for your reply so I am a bit caught off gaurd.



    why are you stopping at Moderators wanting more Chinese on this forum
    I want more chinese members on Wab, there ain't no lie about that, sir.

    I am one step ahead of them.
    You are many steps ahead of me, and I admire you for that and wish to learn from you as the years go on.

    I am fighting for them to be here and I am not too sure if the Moderators are getting fed up of me.


    I want them to stay too,
    And are you an Oversea Chinese or of Chinese descent?
    Lol, no I am not. Where would you get that impression from? I"m 6'1 and 175 pounds, I've never met a chinese or vietnamese my size

    Nothing wrong in stating so,

    Just curious!
    I have alot of vietnamese friends, so I feel for the chinese aswell.

    Between you and me, I have Chinese relatives and they are very nice people.
    You can Mob Me any time with your post and it will be a pleasure to reply,
    Thats classic, and I honestly cannot compete with that, so shall I surrender now? Can we be back to being cool again?

  5. #50
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    I don't agree with some of your points since you have extracted sentences which is not in consonance with the completeness of idea that was expressed.



    I always chill out. )
    Last edited by Ray; 20 Apr 08, at 08:10.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  6. #51
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    Albany Rifles's Avatar
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    Colonel

    ...people who do not even have the courtesy to communicate in English on an English forum, my tolerance for this horse puckey is at an end.


    Since I have usually been told by my wife I can barely speak English...I hope this doesn't apply to me!
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

  7. #52
    Officer of Engineers
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    Major,

    I said English, not Venusian.

  8. #53
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    Hey guys, first post, if I've violated any courtesy or rules on the forum please let me know

    Anyway, I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I was able to sum up the basic points made by my friends (rather pro-China), chem teacher and I regarding the issue:

    - Tibet is not what it used to be. There are significant numbers of muslims and Hans living there now. Free Tibet just isn't feasible.
    - The Dalai Lama doesn't call for a free Tibet, but for one with greater autonomy. Now, whether Tibet has greater autonomy than the Chinese Proper provinces is open to dispute (Tibet Autonomous Region being the name, instead of, say, Henan Province)
    - Human rights record cannot be cleaned up, as it is a record (unless they're referring to whitewashing history, which I'm all against). What we can do though, is improve presently for the future. Also, there has been no credible sources (or very few) that cite the exact kind of human rights violations that China has committed in Tibet in the 2008 protests.
    - The protests are violent and racial in nature, and the military has been brought in to restore law and order. It's like declaring martial law during the FLQ Crisis in Canada, or bringing in military in aboriginals erecting roadblocks and engaging in protests.
    - As there has been no formal polls, we cannot be sure whether the majority of Tibetans want independence or not. A fellow friend of mine who lives in Yunnan Province tells that many Tibetans living there either appreciate the freeing of Tibetans from serfdom by the PRC, or simply do not care about the issue. I'm not saying that these people represent the majority of Tibetans, just that they exist and are apparent in Chinese society.
    - Religious freedom and the such are slowly being granted to Tibetans. For example, there is a limit of 20,000 visitors to the palace in Lhasa per year. That's about 60 per day.

    Now, the less idealistic and more political oriented reason why China cannot grant Tibet its independence, which nonetheless may be legitimate:

    - Rivers originating from China provide irrigation and power to vast areas of China. This source of water must be secured for China's future progress.
    - There are deposits of minerals in Tibet, which may be exploited at a later time.
    - Tibet is landlocked, it cannot survive with the standard of living it has now if the Qinghai-Lhasa Railway was cut off, or the various road networks. China won't be trading with Tibet for at least the next 50 years, just like the US with Cuba.
    - With the independence of Tibet, it will encourage other provinces and regions such as Xinjiang or Taiwan to separate. This raises two issues: a. the PRC was established upon the principles of Chinese unification, and restoration of Chinese national self-confidence after a hundred years of foreign exploitation. b. The Party, should it fail to hold the country together, will lose the support of the people altogether and political and social turmoil will result. This is exactly what the Party and many Chinese fears.
    - China without Tibet will lose a lot of geopolitical influence in Central Asia. As well, Tibet will most likely fall under Indian influence, seeing as how the Dalai Lama currently lives in India. India will be able to exert pressure on China a lot easier with Tibet.

    I'll mention now that I'm Chinese-Canadian (not like you couldn't figure that out from my post anyway). Hope I didn't violate any rules (crosses fingers)! ;

  9. #54
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter whether you are a Chinese Canadian or not.

    A very pragmatic post.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  10. #55
    luffaman
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    would you mind tell us more about you in intro board?
    i will be there to give you are big welcome if you do.
    and whether you are good or bad boy in my eyes totally depends on whether you will return my favor by welcoming me in my thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by obcession View Post
    Hey guys, first post, if I've violated any courtesy or rules on the forum please let me know

  11. #56
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by obcession View Post
    - The protests are violent and racial in nature, and the military has been brought in to restore law and order. It's like declaring martial law during the FLQ Crisis in Canada, or bringing in military in aboriginals erecting roadblocks and engaging in protests.
    Factual error, the military was not called in. It was the PAP/CAPF.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Factual error, the military was not called in. It was the PAP/CAPF.
    Oops, my mistake :( I can never tell the difference between the military units and PAP, there's so much variantion in uniforms between different units sorry lol

    Edit: new uniforms in 2007? o.o

    would you mind tell us more about you in intro board?
    i will be there to give you are big welcome if you do.
    and whether you are good or bad boy in my eyes totally depends on whether you will return my favor by welcoming me in my thread.
    sure thing
    Last edited by obcession; 17 May 08, at 23:28.

  13. #58
    In Memoriam Military Professional dave lukins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obsession View Post
    Oops, my mistake :( I can never tell the difference between the military units and PAP, there's so much variation in uniforms between different units sorry lol



    sure thing
    obsession, don't be too hard on yourself When you post, make sure you have the correct facts. If possible, read previous Threads on the subject, pick the brains, and then post. A word to the wise, if you are submitting anything in reference to China, Officer of Engineers is an EXPERT. The Colonel has spent his life in the study of this region, so tread carefully)

  14. #59
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by obcession View Post
    Edit: new uniforms in 2007? o.o
    The PAP was renamed to the China Armed Police Force in 2006. Uniforms changed that year. Don't know why they changed the name. Everyone, including the PLA, still calla them the PAP.

  15. #60
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    In Chinese, the CAPF (中国武警)just sounds like an abbreviation of the PAP (中国人民武装警察). The only difference is that they took out the "People's". I'm thinking it's got to do with taking away some of its rather relic and communist flavour, especially when it's responsible for security in the olympics.

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