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  • Originally posted by Big K View Post
    no no,

    Islam means peace literarly
    Not also 'submission'?
    HD Ready?

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    • Originally posted by entropy View Post
      Nothing controversial about the movie. Things that have happened because of extremists following the Qu'ran.
      To you and I. But wait til it rolls for awhile and some libs get a hold of it. I posted the pat condell vid last week or the one before on the thread "the nerve of these guys". It set off a discussion that almost made my eyes roll back in my head and lose conciousness. I couldn't believe it. Theres so many that just don't get it.

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      • Originally posted by HistoricalDavid View Post
        Not also 'submission'?

        Untill 9/11 Islam meant submission(to Allah). After 9/11 it means peace.
        God is a cruise missile.

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        • Originally posted by Big K View Post
          yes i made a mistake about the number of verse...but verses are from the same Surah...
          Ok. So what is the verse number? I'd like to check it against my copy.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FullTank View Post
            Untill 9/11 Islam meant submission(to Allah). After 9/11 it means peace.
            Ok is this fact ? I have never heard this ....did they actaually change the meaning of the word after 9/11?
            sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

            Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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            • Originally posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
              Ok is this fact ? I have never heard this ....did they actaually change the meaning of the word after 9/11?
              Think he was trying to be sarcastic and hypocritical. Meaning, when on the back foot, the meaning changes from "submission" to "peace". Until, back on ones feet again.
              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                Think he was trying to be sarcastic and hypocritical. Meaning, when on the back foot, the meaning changes from "submission" to "peace". Until, back on ones feet again.
                Thats what I thought, but I had to check
                sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

                Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post


                  The Muslim world is not a monolithic one - There are Christian nations in Africa and South America that have committed genocide. The status of the Muslim nations, indeed any nation, needs to be looked at from a much larger perspective than merely religion.
                  Yeah; so? We think they are a bunch of zeolot nut jobs too! Why do you think we keep sending out armies in there to try and stop them killing eachother and laugh at the crazy ones in our own societies. In our own countries if they step out of line by sniping doctors who perform abortions we hunt them down and lock em up as an example.
                  Originally posted by GVChamp
                  College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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                  • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                    "winning bread" and "national interest" are reality. If Muslims or Muslim nations were the only ones to do so, perhaps your argument might be valid - but we aren't. Nations throughout history, religious and non-religious, have pursued flawed policies in the name of national interest.
                    Then, my friend, they'd be labelled hypocrites. They'd willingly keep quiet when their religion is misinterpreted to hurt the kaffir for their daily bread but won't tolerate criticism for the same.

                    They will be taken to task for what the outside world percieves as their faults. I for one would like good individuals like you to stand aside.

                    Every community faces criticism and stands up to scrutiny.Why should the Muslim societies be the exception?

                    Now, because that reality doesn't quite fit your attempts to denigrate an entity that has earned your dislike, that entity's actions alone are "condemnable" and a "pretext".
                    Well, we have condemned horrible actions of all entitites. You may not know but I'm as much critical of Christian and Hindus. I don't like to see you playing victim.

                    My personal opinion was that they were not simply satire, but a deliberate attempt to link Muslims with violence - Why shouldn't I oppose them?
                    Because Muslims indulge in violence in the name of their religion and also because my friend the non-believers don't buy your hypocrisy about religion being the most important thing in your lives making it immune from criticism.

                    It is used as nothing but a tool to gang up on the outside or the Muslim of the other sect.

                    Muslims are perfectly willing to see the other way when their religion is misinterpreted because they need to earn their bread. Good muslims should
                    continue to look the other way when non-believers fight the hypocrites.

                    How are Indians doing more for Darfur than Pakistanis (on a people level)? If you aren't doing much more, what gives you the right to criticize us for being complacent "so long as it doesn't hurt us"?
                    You don't understand the fact that Indians are not the ones enacting a I'm holier than thou act in the pretext of religion. Muslims do that - that is why they're identified as what they are.

                    The "thuggery" and "bland radicalism" remains restricted to a minority - I made my arguments on that in the other thread.
                    No my friend. The bland radicalism and discrimination is supported by all Muslim governments, all Muslim majority nations. They are not the actions of a minority - they recieve the support of the silent majority.

                    The Muslim world is not a monolithic one - There are Christian nations in Africa and South America that have committed genocide.
                    Who denies those genocides? To this day it is only Muslims who deny genocide committed in the name of their religion. Christians, Hindus and Africans have willingly admitted their faults.

                    The status of the Muslim nations, indeed any nation, needs to be looked at from a much larger perspective than merely religion
                    .

                    Neither development, money, socio-economic conditions make Muslims nations different from others. Except religion. There are all types of Muslim nations. And all of them *legally* discriminate minorities.

                    I have pointed out how, given a mere semblance of stability, Pakistan has progressed an amazing amount from the Zia years.
                    Pakistan showed little progress before 9/11. And I argue that Pakistan would go back to pre-9/11 days of pumping Jihad in Kashmir and Afghan once America withdraws. What progress!

                    Turkey, given its own dynamics and history, has achieved even more. Merely looking at one aspect of a country (the dominant religion) to explain its flaws, is an incredibly flawed argument.
                    Turkey is not Islamic. It is secular.

                    Apologies for delayed reply.

                    Comment


                    • Samudra, very good reply, one the best I've seen so far. You seem very informed your years. Well written and understandable. Absolutely agree.

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                      • Originally posted by HistoricalDavid View Post
                        Not also 'submission'?
                        submission "to God" yes...
                        Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kansas Bear View Post
                          Ok. So what is the verse number? I'd like to check it against my copy.
                          you can find it from right side you can enter the name or number of Surah and verse
                          Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Big K View Post
                            submission "to God" yes...
                            Big K, although this doesn't go with the atheists and the Buddhists; but may I ask again, by "god", do you mean "god", or only the "Abrahamic god" (as I was told by a muslim elsewhere). I thought god was one? But according to a lot, if you did not get that knowledge through the Abrahamic religion's founder, then you're a Kaafir.
                            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                              Big K, although this doesn't go with the atheists and the Buddhists; but may I ask again, by "god", do you mean "god", or only the "Abrahamic god" (as I was told by a muslim elsewhere). I thought god was one? But according to a lot, if you did not get that knowledge through the Abrahamic religion's founder, then you're a Kaafir.
                              according Quran there was more than 200.000 prophets around the world,

                              so i believe that anybody can not clearly know who have the word of God who have not,

                              the truth is; Quran does favor goodnes, and monoteism, theres only 5 musts of Islam, the rest is between you and God.

                              it is your conscience and heart who can only tell you the truth.

                              my belief is between me and God. anybody can judge me as a kafir.

                              for exemple a scientist who makes researches for humanity is more "Muslim" than me...Quran and Islam is a way to live more than a religion...

                              my view is politics and socio-engineers are using our sensitiveness...for exemple "disbelievers" by this word i believe that Quran mention about who did not believe in God.

                              you can believe to a different form of God,

                              but for me it is always the same...

                              you see what ever you heard about Islam which is not logic is false.

                              this is the key...Islam is the way of logic and ease.

                              imagine a book who starts with the order of "Read!"

                              the rest and todays provocations about Islam are misinterpretations and lies..thats all...
                              Last edited by Big K; 02 Apr 08,, 15:53.
                              Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Big K View Post
                                submission "to God" yes...
                                And what does God say?

                                Who is the arbiter and interpreter of what God says?

                                The clerics? This is not a viable answer in the modern world.

                                Each individual? Then seeing as you are referring your morality in a loop back to yourself, why not cast out God and clear the air?

                                And why should I submit to God, assuming he exists?
                                HD Ready?

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