Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Movie Fitna

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Fox interview with Geert Wilders on his movie-Part 1







    Fox interview with Geert Wilders on his movie -Part 2

    God is a cruise missile.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
      You contradict yourself when you admit that the "interpretation of the source" (the Quran) is different for different nations, yet then argue that "look and act like one".
      I'm not contradicting myself, the book is the same, the most basic derivations of shariyat is also the same. The intolerance for other religions is all the same.

      I don't see how you can argue that Turkey, Lebanon, Pakistan, Malaysia, Iran and Afghanistan are nations that "look and act like one".
      Take for example, intolerance for other religion is common in most nations you described. So my argument that all muslim nations though not a monolithic entity, still look and act like the same.

      but go into any Church, and its Jesus and the bible - just like it is Mohammed and the Quran in any Muslim mosque.
      Sure, but only if you get in to a church, not when you are in the road. But when you are in a muslim nation, Islam hits in your face right away.
      A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

      Comment


      • #78
        I have read the Koran, at least 20% of it. The film takes quotes out of context and illustrates them with bloody, contemporary occurances. The Koran is no more a fascist source-book of inspiration for genocide than is the Bible. I do not accept that Islam per se is my enemy, or to quote a friend, "Don't tell me who my enemies are". Nontheless, I lost a friend on 9/11 and I was in London shortly after the train bombings, so let me gently suggest that "war" and "peace" are separate paradigms with different rules of behavior and comportment toward others. What we would not like to have to do in liberal, civil, western society may yet become a requirement. Hope not.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by entropy View Post
          Caught 3 times for serious offences -> deportation.

          That for non-citizens. It's a start. I see no arguments against this one.
          Wow caught three times for a serious offence and you want to deport them??!?! You certainly are European. :))

          The first violent crime or serious theft is enough to send him/her packing. Their family too if they are a young offender but as they are young that much harsher penalty will be done the second time the little bastard does it.
          Originally posted by GVChamp
          College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Neo View Post
            . I could do the same to prove that the Bible encourages incest or paedophilia

            (
            That's a new one to me, I'd like to see you do just that. Not to be a jerk but I have really never heard that before and I would like you to post the verse that can be linked to that.
            Originally posted by GVChamp
            College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

            Comment


            • #81
              You know what, as much as i'm not host to Wilder's radical views, after watching that interview; he does have a very good point. "If you're against somebody, use your freedom of speech, go and debate, write an article, form a party that thinks differently, this is democracy!" Very well said. Just that I don't think he should be anti-Islam, as he is outright. His party should've been anti-radical Islam. As right now, he is just dividing the dutch society, just as the radical Islamists. Wonder how long before muslim - non-muslim riots start sparking off in Europe.
              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by S-2 View Post
                I haven't watched it. No need. The discussion here has been excellent to absorb the central gist minus the needless poison.

                Central point to me is that it's been identified universally as such and is rapidly becoming a marginalized artifact- as it seemingly deserves.

                OOTH, Parihaka's earlier comment is disturbing to this American. Europe's growing desire to exclude America from it's security perspective also seems a reflection of increasingly polarized attitudes, particularly when our presence has successfully served as a mitigating agent against Europe's occasional proclivities to indulge pogroms of one sort or another.

                As I've mentioned elsewhere, our presence is as much to protect Europeans from one another as, perhaps, anything.
                S2, the discussion here, as deep as it is, has wandered far from the Wilders documentary which is after all, a collection of recent newsreel footage interspersed with quotes from the Qu'ran that give possible justification to the events portrayed.

                The film will most likely become an artifact but wether or not it deseves to be, or the clear warning contained in it can be consigned to the dustbin, only time will tell.
                The marginalization of Wilders himself I can understand has come predominately from the Dutch Primeminister and other political parties who see Wilder's party as a threat to their own. Standard practice for the grubby business of politics as you would be well aware.

                The other condemnation from around the world, including from the UN's Banki Moon has been so vociferous and able to completely ignore the whole of the contents that the personal villification of Wilders and the doco have become cringe worthy.

                I noted with interest a debate held last month between Dennis Praeger and the Chair of Middle Eastern Studies from Princeton University, Emeritus Professor Bernard Lewis.
                Professor Lewis made the comment that so many of the current world leaders seem to be indulging in a competition to see who can be the most "Chamberlainesk".

                I also noted Parihaka's comments and his use of the term "filth" when refering to the doco.
                I am not sure if that reference was in relation to the contents of the newsreel clips or as a remark aimed generically at the doco and Wilders.
                If it was the latter them I am dissapointed that such an emotive term has been used given that the people who use that term the most and with maximum venom possible are the Islamic extremists of the world who use the word "filth" to variously describe religions, cultures, societies and people who are not Islamic and dare to critisize their certain notion of right to supremacy.

                There may well be pogroms in Europe but wether or not the US or indeed Australia would want to become involved would be a hot debate I'm sure.
                The intent of the little Chamberlains of this world to vilify anyone who dares to stick their head up and speak their mind will I think determine if there are pogroms or Europe will become something very different to what most Europeans think they are and would like to remain.

                Rather than take anyone elses opinon about Fitna, it's contents and it's message I suggest you take 16 minutes of your time to view it and analyse it for yourself.

                Cheers.
                Last edited by captain; 01 Apr 08,, 00:34.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Expat Canuck View Post
                  Wow caught three times for a serious offence and you want to deport them??!?! You certainly are European. :))

                  The first violent crime or serious theft is enough to send him/her packing. Their family too if they are a young offender but as they are young that much harsher penalty will be done the second time the little bastard does it.
                  Well, the monks of the Leftist Church, the ones who claim Iran has the right to kill gays but use the word "discrimination" as a punctuation mark, do think that it is extremely immoral to deport scum, and that it is our fault that the "poor victims" turn evil.
                  The poor misguided youth, who have a crime record thick enough to armour dreadnaughts with, should be guided by social workers until they realise that what they do is wrong. Youth movements with cute activities should do most of the job.

                  These people are a majority, so I cannot possibly express my actual opinion* without being compared to Hitler, Satan and Gargamel.



                  *my actual opinion is too wide to discuss here, but it involves Rotan caning, turning recidivists into galley slaves on environment-friendly river boats, mounting Flying Fortress-style turret armament on public transport, gladiator games and much more

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                    Actually a lot of them regularly speak out against violence, terrorism etc, both individuals and priests. I regularly post them here, you just don't read them.
                    Never seen a Grand Protest against that.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by entropy View Post



                      *my actual opinion is too wide to discuss here, but it involves Rotan caning, turning recidivists into galley slaves on environment-friendly river boats, mounting Flying Fortress-style turret armament on public transport, gladiator games and much more

                      Ever read Starship Troopers? You'll like it.
                      Originally posted by GVChamp
                      College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by entropy View Post
                        Never seen a Grand Protest against that.
                        The major problem is this, when the nutjobs die in a suicide bomb, they cry shouting "AllahoAkbar"/ or glory to allah or islam is gr8
                        something on those lines.

                        These nutjobs get their ideology from quran itself, dont forget - people here say that quran is misintepreted by the Fitna maker types, but the same misintepretation is used by the "radicals".

                        You have to defeat an ideology, and hitlers ideology rested on aryan superiority, when that was busted at the end of WW2, he was laid to rest,

                        How does one lay to rest this "radical islamic ideology(RII)"? The problem is this ideology rests on some "interpretations" of islam.

                        How do you differentiate one interpretation from another interpretation? Even a showing of picture of Mohammad created 50 dead with probably 10 embassies burning. When even a small act of ommision of a single verse of quran by an infidel, no less, creates this, how does one act against this basis?

                        Without busting these "misinterpretations" how does one kill the RII?

                        The statements shown in the movie from the mullahs might be edited but real.

                        The mullahs do say that and on what does the power of these mullahs rest on?

                        Please let us put to rest the canard that illiteracy or poverty breeds this behavior. NONE of 9/11 belong to this group. All were infact western educated and from well-to-do families. OBL is a rich prince of Saudi Arabia.

                        In the end: How does speak against these RII without having 50 dead and 10 embassies burning and the author himself dead/in hiding?
                        Last edited by ravi_ku; 01 Apr 08,, 06:01.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by entropy
                          Never seen a Grand Protest against that.

                          I think entropy makes a good point. If ordinary non-radical muslims find this film insulting because it portrays Islam in a bad light by showing actions of islamic radicals, why are they not protesting as vehemently at the radicals who scream 'Allahu Akbar' before blowing themselves up in markets and behead journalists in the name of Islam? You don't see the same level of reaction. Right now, I'm just waiting for an attempt on his life or a terrorist act on Denmark to prove this film right... I can almost hear the radicals saying "let us kill all those who say Islam is not a religion of peace".

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Well said captain....

                            Originally posted by captain View Post
                            S2, the discussion here, as deep as it is, has wandered far from the Wilders documentary which is after all, a collection of recent newsreel footage interspersed with quotes from the Qu'ran that give possible justification to the events portrayed.

                            The film will most likely become an artifact but wether or not it deseves to be, or the clear warning contained in it can be consigned to the dustbin, only time will tell.
                            The marginalization of Wilders himself I can understand has come predominately from the Dutch Primeminister and other political parties who see Wilder's party as a threat to their own. Standard practice for the grubby business of politics as you would be well aware.

                            The other condemnation from around the world, including from the UN's Banki Moon has been so vociferous and able to completely ignore the whole of the contents that the personal villification of Wilders and the doco have become cringe worthy.

                            I noted with interest a debate held last month between Dennis Praeger and the Chair of Middle Eastern Studies from Princeton University, Emeritus Professor Bernard Lewis.
                            Professor Lewis made the comment that so many of the current world leaders seem to be indulging in a competition to see who can be the most "Chamberlainesk".

                            I also noted Parihaka's comments and his use of the term "filth" when refering to the doco.
                            I am not sure if that reference was in relation to the contents of the newsreel clips or as a remark aimed generically at the doco and Wilders.
                            If it was the latter them I am dissapointed that such an emotive term has been used given that the people who use that term the most and with maximum venom possible are the Islamic extremists of the world who use the word "filth" to variously describe religions, cultures, societies and people who are not Islamic and dare to critisize their certain notion of right to supremacy.

                            There may well be pogroms in Europe but wether or not the US or indeed Australia would want to become involved would be a hot debate I'm sure.
                            The intent of the little Chamberlains of this world to vilify anyone who dares to stick their head up and speak their mind will I think determine if there are pogroms or Europe will become something very different to what most Europeans think they are and would like to remain.

                            Rather than take anyone elses opinon about Fitna, it's contents and it's message I suggest you take 16 minutes of your time to view it and analyse it for yourself.

                            Cheers.

                            Captain, I agree with you and wanted to add a little.

                            Last time I checked Geert was not calling for the death of the Muslim's. But Muslim's have been calling for his death and that of the rest of the world that is not Muslim. The question arises...Who is abusing freedom of speech here? Geert, making a movie chronicling the advance of radical Islam in the West? Which is true by the way. Or the Muslim's chanting for the death of the west and the rest of the freaking world that they deem "INFIDEL'S"? And they are doing this by the way.

                            Seems to me that Geert is doing the work that the freedom of speech was created for and his freedom is being taken away by those that should be celebrating that freedom which does not allow its country to self destruct.

                            And the Muslim's use that freedom and many others to conquer the host countries they are currently terrorizing. I just can't see freedom of speech and freedom in general as to let an enemy subdue a country. But the Muslim is much smarter than many of the weenies in our western democracies. The weenies think that there is no bounds to freedom. The Muslim has studied the Westerner and his law well and sees the perversion that the perverted minds have attached to the laws original intent thus making the once good constitutions and laws null and void of any practicality.

                            The American constitution was not designed to be a self destructing document. The spirit of the constitution has been changed over time in ways that seem to reflect that freedom has no constraints. But any right thinking individual would realize that freedom with out restraints morphs into a perverted sort of anarchy that doesn't resemble a constitution.

                            Well the Muslim sees this and considers the apple ripe for the picking and phases the host country slowly out of the equation and the host country is morphed into a Muslim country with Sharia law. Simply to say, when your constitution and freedom has no bounds your constitution ceases to exist. A constitution is enumerated with certain rights and laws to live by. Not do what the hell you want to do with out any bounds.

                            In America I can say that our founding fathers were smarter than to make a constitution that would allow a parasitical tyrannical regime to be able to take over. That is why America Enjoys the second amendment to protect against tyrants from taking over the government from within. I think Geert sees clearly as to the pressing problem his country faces.

                            Parianka is just wrong about censoring Geert. And so are the rest of you guys who want to censor Geert. When ever the West decides to defend itself within its borders they are branded Hitlers. But remember Hitler had his evil sites on the whole freaking world, not just the protecting of his country. We need to keep this little fact in perspective when judging someone like Geert who is wanting to protect his little country from those who readily admit that they want to win the whole world by might and main for Allah. READ THE QU'RAN PEOPLE. THE WHOLE THING. Then listen to the "Moderate Islamic Apologist". Then look at what they are doing. Then and only then will you understand Geert's and many others concerns.

                            Funny to note Geert's material is footage of what the Muslim is doing and saying. And even more striking is that they don't want it to be shown. Boy that is really convenient for the Muslim's. And If he shows that film we will get mad and start doing what he shows us doing in the film because we are insulted that he messes up our plan to overthrow your country. We don't want resistance. It easier to take over your country when you think we're your friends.



                            You Guys will figure it out someday.:)




                            Ivan

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I agree with all the last few posts made, I couldn't have said it better. Amen

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                                Actually a lot of them regularly speak out against violence, terrorism etc, both individuals and priests. I regularly post them here, you just don't read them.
                                Just one attack by the lot on any embassy or burning the flags which the nutjobs fly, when the nutjobs terrorize people is enough.:))

                                heck attacking embassies has become one of their favorite pastimes.

                                We have US, Indian, Danish flags burnt by them, not one flag burnings of OBLs alquidas logo or such.

                                As somebody said "the greatest evil is not performed by the evil person doing the evil , but by a good person who is being a bystander to the evil" - (probably me myself;) )

                                The individuals and priests are not doing it. Recently some madrassas in India have said that they are against terrorism(i.e. islam is against terrorism) but conveniently forgot to define terrorism. Their statement was such that even Govts response could be treated as terrorism and it was given much fanfare in Indian media, but what they said in actual value- nada, zilch.

                                Many muslims when asked about them, have so many convoluted reasons, ho! they are being harassed in palestine, kashmir! what else do you expect from the underdogs - real life reply.

                                Reality : None of the 9/11 or bombay blasters were from kashmir or palestine. None of them of poor, they all were rich, rich enough to emigrate. rich enough to take flying classes in US, no less. But then the terrorists are poor, homeless people - who are fighting for their rights. Unless we remove this false stereotype from the peoples mind of who actually is a terrorist, the society and muslims themselves will not able to stamp out this!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X