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  • #31
    Originally posted by Neo View Post
    If Christians or any other religion for that matter have lost their sense of decency so be it, most don't even live by the book nor do they possess knowledge of the Scripts so I couldn't care less.

    But for me it becomes an act of blasphemy if I'm exposed to it and I have the right to condemn.
    You're making the same mistake most Muslims do when viewing the west. Religion is not the arbiter nor owner of decency, morality or any other human attribute.
    They don't own nor did they create such attributes, they merely claim to in a vain (in the west) attempt to claim authority over people.
    Your Koran may contain much that is wise, but that wisdom comes from humanity, not some imaginary friend. Sneering at westerners because we have wisdom without the need for an imaginary friend called god or yahweh or allah isn't going to increase your understanding of the nation you live in Neo. Especially when you protest against the filth this filmaker has produced but then go ahead categorizing 1) all "Christians or any other religion for that matter" as being responsible for and agreeing with the film,
    and
    2): sneering at people because they don't follow your, or any, faith.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

    Comment


    • #32
      Thank you Sir, we need to stay calm because getting violant will only proof Wilders right.
      Best way is to ignore him and leave it to the politicians to deal with the aftermath.

      Only thing we can do it to educate our own (muslim) children, encourage them to integrate into western society or to leave. They should not be responsible for our grieves or discontent with the western culture, we should not abuse them by planting hatered or prejudice if we want to co-exist in western countries.

      It came as a chock to me to see the 4 year old child in the video telling that jews are dogs and pigs.

      Comment


      • #33
        Yes, What Wilders is doing is no different then what the radical Islamists, some of which he showed in the video, do. Brainwashing. Eye for an Eye of sorts?
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
          You're making the same mistake most Muslims do when viewing the west. Religion is not the arbiter nor owner of decency, morality or any other human attribute.
          They don't own nor did they create such attributes, they merely claim to in a vain (in the west) attempt to claim authority over people.
          Your Koran may contain much that is wise, but that wisdom comes from humanity, not some imaginary friend. Sneering at westerners because we have wisdom without the need for an imaginary friend called god or yahweh or allah isn't going to increase your understanding of the nation you live in Neo. Especially when you protest against the filth this filmaker has produced but then go ahead categorizing 1) all "Christians or any other religion for that matter" as being responsible for and agreeing with the film,
          and
          2): sneering at people because they don't follow your, or any, faith.
          Sir,

          I wrote that as reply to post #18.
          Last edited by Neo; 29 Mar 08,, 21:21.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Neo View Post
            Sir,

            I wrote that as reply to post #18.
            Gotcha.
            Adux, please stop trolling. I know you can do much better because I've seen you do much better.

            My point still stands though Neo, that you need to see the west as more than Christianity, otherwise you'll only be addressing a small part of the people of the west. You are after all, a leader of your people.
            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

            Leibniz

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              You're making the same mistake most Muslims do when viewing the west. Religion is not the arbiter nor owner of decency, morality or any other human attribute.
              They don't own nor did they create such attributes, they merely claim to in a vain (in the west) attempt to claim authority over people.
              Your Koran may contain much that is wise, but that wisdom comes from humanity, not some imaginary friend. Sneering at westerners because we have wisdom without the need for an imaginary friend called god or yahweh or allah isn't going to increase your understanding of the nation you live in Neo. Especially when you protest against the filth this filmaker has produced but then go ahead categorizing 1) all "Christians or any other religion for that matter" as being responsible for and agreeing with the film,
              and
              2): sneering at people because they don't follow your, or any, faith.

              Can I say, An excellent post. People underestimate the value's one inherit as an human being, somehow feels religion is the ONLY medium to provide moral compass. Excellent.

              Editted later: Pari?
              Last edited by Adux; 29 Mar 08,, 21:54.

              Comment


              • #37
                Ofcourse, I am sure there is a political and a more sinister motive for Wilders movie. But as free citizen's isnt it our choice to just 'dump' his rant if we feel that is the right thing. I feel he is as dangerous as the terrorist themeselves, but the choice is mine.

                How would one view Da Vinci Code from a Catholic Christian point of view?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                  You're making the same mistake most Muslims do when viewing the west. Religion is not the arbiter nor owner of decency, morality or any other human attribute.
                  Sir, I grew up in the west. I agree that "Religion is not the arbiter nor owner of decency, morality or any other human attribute." but doesn't it teach us the values of decency, morality or other human attributes?
                  You have to understand that religion to muslims is the most important thing in life, most people fail to see that.

                  They don't own nor did they create such attributes, they merely claim to in a vain (in the west) attempt to claim authority over people.
                  Your Koran may contain much that is wise, but that wisdom comes from humanity, not some imaginary friend. Sneering at westerners because we have wisdom without the need for an imaginary friend called god or yahweh or allah isn't going to increase your understanding of the nation you live in Neo. Especially when you protest against the filth this filmaker has produced but then go ahead categorizing 1) all "Christians or any other religion for that matter" as being responsible for and agreeing with the film,
                  and
                  2): sneering at people because they don't follow your, or any, faith.
                  I meant to say that what people believe in or with what intensity they believe is their own choice, Christianity or any other religion is not under attack here, Islam is. The concept of God may or may not be "merely an imaginary friend", to muslims God is the center of their universe and this will never change!

                  Movies like Da Vinci Code and questioning the devine status of the Christ may be agrreable to Christians but a muslim will never question the existance or authencity of Muhammed or the Quran.
                  I guess thats the difference between us.

                  I stand by what I wrote, my views are not entocentric. Live and let live is what I believe in...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Neo View Post
                    You have to understand that religion to muslims is the most important thing in life, most people fail to see that.
                    Sure, but then muslims cannot complain about what others do in their lives, what others think what is important in their lives. If you want to pray 5 times a day, feel free to do it, but dont force the state or others in to it.

                    The concept of God may or may not be "merely an imaginary friend", to muslims God is the center of their universe and this will never change!
                    If you live in a muslim centric world, it would be fine, but in a normal town where not all are muslims or who does not share the same values, then muslims should mind "their" business.

                    Regardless, the movie has some crisp editing,you gotta give that to the guy who made it. And as for the message, there are numb nuts like that all over the world and in every religion, but then Islam has too many people like that, and thats giving Islam a bad rep.
                    A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Whoh, thats a scary 15 min video. Especially when they went upclose on that scary looking fella with the big green eyes (nightmares) I have a question for our fellow muslims, were any of those quotes wrong? I don't mean mis-interpreted, I mean the quote translations, were they wrong? Also I notice that when Muslims are accused of something, they freak out. But when a terrorist - who just happens to be a muslim - blows up innocent people or buildings, the muslim community is dead silent; you will get one muslim priest saying "muslims do not support violence" and thats it. If muslims really are MUSLIMS first, and then patriots next, what on earth are they doing in the west? I don't get it. Like, you hate America/england but you live in America/England and your kids are BORN in america/england, but you will still ACCEPT it being destroyed by muslim fanatics because you support your religion over anything else. How stupid is that. Why not simply move BACK to your home countries and pray 5 times a day and live in your strict environment, oh wait, isnt that why you left in the first place? It was too strict and not enough opportunities? Maybe Turkey should invade some of these "strict" countries and enforce their values of life to all. We wouldn't be having ANY of these problems if Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi ETC ETC ETC were like Turkey.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Mobbe,

                        Live and Let Live, as long as rules are according to their interest,

                        My best friend who is a muslim has come down to meet me today, I was having a conversation with him regarding why muslim dont put up a voice against violence, Even he said "95% of the muslims are peace loving, and 5 % are pigs, In India and the west, they complete freedom decry these nutjobs and come up in life, even then they dont. Do they have tacit approval of the terrorist, or are they scared of the terrorist as for an ordinary muslim to be called a non-believer or not a good muslim is the ultimate shame. It seems to me they are confused?

                        Like many of us, the absurdity of religious beliefs are hitting home, but is there acceptance and self-introspection over there?
                        Last edited by Adux; 29 Mar 08,, 22:44.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hey mate, long time no see. Good to have you back! :)

                          Originally posted by Jay View Post
                          Sure, but then muslims cannot complain about what others do in their lives, what others think what is important in their lives. If you want to pray 5 times a day, feel free to do it, but dont force the state or others in to it.
                          True, how one lives his life is his own business, I don't see muslims complaining about it. But I fail to undersatnd why it is important for someone with a healthy mind to pull some Quranic Verses out of contest to degrade a great religion.
                          Condemn radicalism and I will support you, denounce extremist and I'll walk with you but don't give me crap that all Islam teaches is violance.

                          If you live in a muslim centric world, it would be fine, but in a normal town where not all are muslims or who does not share the same values, then muslims should mind "their" business.
                          It should not matter if you're in a muslim country or not, freedom of free speech and free practice of religion should apply to all, in most countries including Holland these amendments are protected by the Law.

                          Wilders' vision is to deport all muslims from Holland and destroy Islam.

                          Reminds me of a guy called Hitler.
                          Last edited by Neo; 29 Mar 08,, 22:44.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Adu

                            Some of the stuff these muslim priests say are scary man. The one time I heard a christian priest say something remotely scary was that idiot who was Obama's pastor. And even Obama disowned him, or said he did. But in general, if most (since I haven't heard all) muslim religious leader preach the same thing over n over, doesn't that mean the general public support that bullsh%t? If they didn't, wouldn't they have overthrown the numb nuts? If its about freedom of speech and those d!ck weeds are allowed to say whatever they want, but why do they stop us, including THEIR WOMEN, from the same?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Adux View Post
                              Do they have tacit approval of the terrorist, or are they scared of the terrorist as for an ordinary muslim to be called a non-believer or not a good muslim is the ultimate shame. It seems to me they are confused?
                              Adu, like I said before; blame the government, not the ordinary muslims. In India, moderates do speak out! But then, like Taslima, they have to pack up fast and flee the country fearing for their lives, as it is obvious the government has given the radicals way too much of a free hand. 'Vande Matram' issue was another issue. When radicals opposed it, so many moderate Muslims condemned them and sung it! But this action by the moderates was again shot down by the opposition party when they proposed the compulsory singing in all schools of the nationalistic song.

                              1.) The government has to take much harder action against radicals. (i.e. A fatwa, should be treated as a criminal death threat and the monkey arrested)

                              2.) People have to stop pitting all Muslims in one crowd. Fight is against radicals, not the religion.
                              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                An interesting tape - on the one hand, it's a genuine wingnut who made it, with a very clear agenda, but he does none the less raise some very valid points, from the utterly horrifying beheading, the clerics undoctorable rants and indeed raising the Theo Van Gogh case - killed for speaking out against Islam creatively, and his killer is unremorseful, and clearly unfearing of the system - something that makes it good propaganda/a scary wake up call (delete as appropriate).

                                The Quotes from the Qu'ran I wouldn't take all that seriously though, has anyone here ever leafed through Deuteronomy?

                                It talks about killing the infidels as well - the major point being we don't and never will again consider a book the guiding principle of our societies.....is there any hope that at any point in our lifetime the same will be said for Islam?
                                Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                                - John Stuart Mill.

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