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  • #16
    I think neither of them can rebuke each other,althouth I'm Chinese.
    China,of course is not a very democratic country,but democracy is what China's goverment is working for.As for America,they always think they did best on human rights,but did the US Goverment respect other countrys' Human rights?Just take a look at Iraq~
    sigpic

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    • #17
      gunnut,

      Chinese, be it Confuciousim or communism or whatever, still believe in the nation and the state can solve all their problems and provide prosperity.
      instead of "all their problems and provide prosperity," i think the keyword here should be social stability. chinese fear instability above all.

      this is not a racial thing, this is a historical thing. everytime instability pops up, sh*t, and a lot of it, hits the fan. warlords, red guards, etc etc.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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      • #18
        sweetstar,

        China,of course is not a very democratic country,but democracy is what China's goverment is working for.
        not really.

        the most that can be said is that the CCP is working towards intra-party democracy and, perhaps after 75 years, provincial-level democracy. with the CCP remaining the national party, much like singapore today.

        maybe.
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • #19
          Saying that the US goverment is "BY the people" is not that accurate. Actually the voters of US send their votes to the candidate they even don't understand. And the welfare of the American people are built "robbing" the other parts of the world.

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          • #20
            Do you think that United states pre-decide their president cadidates. The media just mute or smear the candidates they don't like(like Ron Paul). And of course the media is controlled by the group who own them.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by astralis View Post
              sweetstar,



              not really.

              the most that can be said is that the CCP is working towards intra-party democracy and, perhaps after 75 years, provincial-level democracy. with the CCP remaining the national party, much like singapore today.

              maybe.
              Do you think that United states pre-decide their president cadidates. The media just mute or smear the candidates they don't like(like Ron Paul). And of course the media is controlled by the group who own them.

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              • #22
                Do you think that United states pre-decide their president cadidates. The media just mute or smear the candidates they don't like(like Ron Paul). And of course the media is controlled by the group who own them.

                You got the idea. Unfortunately the majority of americans do not realize it, they are either ignorant or brainwashed by their media how great their democracy is and they are morally aloft. However, the fact is America has been violating human rights world wide rampantly and it is never a government run by the people, of the people and for the people. It is a government run by the two parties that are backed, funded and operated by a group of tiny proportion of the whole population.

                what ironic is, the biggest human right violator points its fingers to 200 countries on this planet for human rights violating annually in its reports. AND under this accusation, it invades, bullies, loots and blackmails others. That's the reason i never believe in God.

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                • #23
                  I have a simple questions for the swarm of pro CCP posters currently descending.

                  I assume that you come to these boards to discuss your country. To put your opinion in the hope that others will listen to it. My question is relatively simple & VERY serious:

                  *If the govenment of your own country has such a low opinion of your intellect that it refuses to grant you free speech or the right to make meaningful political decisions (ie, choosing a different government), then why should people in the West respect what you have to say?

                  Presumably the government of China knows more about its own people than a bunch of strangers on the internet, yet we grant them more respect. Curious.

                  This is not intended as an insult, but a genuine inquiry from someone who has lived his entire life in a democracy with a free press. I genuinely don't understand what it must be like to live under a regime that treats so many of its own citizens with such utter contempt. I therefore don't know why people would defend such a regime or expect others to take their opinions seriously.

                  I am curious.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

                    *If the govenment of your own country has such a low opinion of your intellect that it refuses to grant you free speech or the right to make meaningful political decisions (ie, choosing a different government), then why should people in the West respect what you have to say?
                    Head Shot

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                      I have a simple questions for the swarm of pro CCP posters currently descending.

                      I assume that you come to these boards to discuss your country. To put your opinion in the hope that others will listen to it. My question is relatively simple & VERY serious:

                      *If the govenment of your own country has such a low opinion of your intellect that it refuses to grant you free speech or the right to make meaningful political decisions (ie, choosing a different government), then why should people in the West respect what you have to say?

                      Presumably the government of China knows more about its own people than a bunch of strangers on the internet, yet we grant them more respect. Curious.

                      This is not intended as an insult, but a genuine inquiry from someone who has lived his entire life in a democracy with a free press. I genuinely don't understand what it must be like to live under a regime that treats so many of its own citizens with such utter contempt. I therefore don't know why people would defend such a regime or expect others to take their opinions seriously.

                      I am curious.
                      We assumed that this is a forum for exchanging opinions. But if you don’t want to take our opinion seriously because we come from a country with different history, culture, tradition, political system and so on, it is your choice.

                      You can make your interpretation for the freedom of speech in your way and only take those opinions that you agree or you think is correct seriously and disregard what you disagree and you think is not correct.

                      Also, you are not necessary the one we are specifically speaking to and you are more than welcome to skip our posts if you don’t want to exchange opinions with us.

                      For me, debating our comment is a friendly action for exchanging opinions. Asking whether our opinion should be respected at all because we come from a country with different history, culture, tradition, political system is not a friendly action.

                      We come here to express our desire for democracy (free speech or the right to make meaningful political decisions). But we also come here to express our opinion that we think at this moment of the Chinese history that it is better for China and most of its people to have a stable development environment.

                      We hope China to develop into a more and more democratic society in a stable and progressive way. We think that the best way for China to achieve our goal is to go through a slow and gradual political reform instead of a sudden change like what happened in formal Soviet.

                      We also think that China is doing it right now whether it is doing it in the best way or whether the pace is too slow is debatable.

                      We know that we will have our share of ambitious politicians like Mikhail Gorbachev, Boris Yeltsin and so on who will sell their country and their mothers for power. A sudden change will only give those guys a chance to sell us all.

                      Ask why many Chinese defending their system now? I can think of a couple of reasons.

                      1. Their lives are rapidly improving.

                      2. Their freedom is improving although still far from comparable to the west.

                      3. We don’t appreciate the results of Soviet to Russia transition. Their mafias took so much nation’s wealth and the ordinary Russians suffer the bread shortage. We could end up even worse than that if we make a change overnight.

                      4. We saw a pre-matured democracy done harm for their children in India.

                      Indian children suffer more malnutrition than in Ethiopia - Times Online

                      http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/int...lection-2.html
                      Last edited by Zeng; 31 Mar 08,, 18:40.
                      I am here for exchanging opinions.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Adux View Post
                        Head Shot
                        Please make something indigenous and original.
                        Last edited by Zeng; 31 Mar 08,, 18:06.
                        I am here for exchanging opinions.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tangyiying View Post
                          You got the idea. Unfortunately the majority of americans do not realize it, they are either ignorant or brainwashed by their media how great their democracy is and they are morally aloft. However, the fact is America has been violating human rights world wide rampantly and it is never a government run by the people, of the people and for the people. It is a government run by the two parties that are backed, funded and operated by a group of tiny proportion of the whole population.

                          what ironic is, the biggest human right violator points its fingers to 200 countries on this planet for human rights violating annually in its reports. AND under this accusation, it invades, bullies, loots and blackmails others. That's the reason i never believe in God.
                          *Brainwashed? Brainwashed is not having any basic unalienable human rights and accepting that from the start and calling it a government.

                          "However, the fact is America has been violating human rights world wide rampantly and it is never a government run by the people, of the people and for the people. It is a government run by the two parties that are backed, funded and operated by a group of tiny proportion of the whole population."


                          I would love to know where this plethera of information on how the U.S. government is run. I could prove you wrong in one sentence. For instance the American people cant be told nor forced to vote for anybody. All they would have to do is simply not vote period. Therefore the president can only stay his elected term. (China certainly cant say that) We dont believe in rulers whose rule is unchallenged.(By the people for the People). Many men would love to rule countries such as ours unchallenged but their term alone defines exactly how long they will stay.

                          Believing in a one rule for all time system went out in the mid-evil days.

                          If you choose to live without basic human rights then good luck. Life is short but it certainly dont have to be that painfull either.;)

                          Without the peoples backing and taxes there will be no vote and no President is higher then the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights. That my friend was written in part by different parties. Not one ruler.;)

                          If you would like to get a different opinion then ask any Chinese American that immigrated into the U.S. how their life has improved since coming here. I would bet they could post and fill many threads just with their own examples of how better their life has become.
                          I work with several Chinese American immigrants.

                          All men are capable of great mistakes no matter who they descend from. Thats why we elect to change ours when their alloted term expires. The very same cannot be said for China. Blindly following a leader for life is in all senses brainwashing.

                          P.S. your gripes about the US and its government has zero to do with believing God. God is the creator none the less wether it is liked or not.
                          Last edited by Dreadnought; 31 Mar 08,, 18:31.
                          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sweetstar View Post
                            I think neither of them can rebuke each other,althouth I'm Chinese.
                            China,of course is not a very democratic country,but democracy is what China's goverment is working for.As for America,they always think they did best on human rights,but did the US Goverment respect other countrys' Human rights?Just take a look at Iraq~
                            Hello Sweetstar,
                            I hope you will read below in an open frame of mind.
                            And welcome to the WAB.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Zeng_xinren

                              Ask why many Chinese defending their system now? I can think of a couple of reasons.

                              1. Their lives are rapidly improving.

                              2. Their freedom is improving although still far from comparable to the west.

                              3. We don’t appreciate the results of Soviet to Russia transition. Their mafias took so much nation’s wealth and the ordinary Russians suffer the bread shortage. We could end up even worse than that if we make a change overnight.

                              4. We saw a pre-matured democracy done harm for their children in India.
                              My friend you are being a little less than honest about why you the Chinese Communist posters have descended like hornets from their beehives.

                              The influx has been sudden and as forceful as the "Shock and Awe" of the Iraq War.

                              And it is on many forums and not this alone!

                              And the truth is that China has been rather taken aback with the Tibetan riots and the allied issues of the Olympic Games!

                              You have been instructed by concerned people to descend on the internet and counter vociferously all adverse issue that may appear on the Internet because of this cause.

                              Just some sites started:

                              Global Voices Online China and Tibet: Anti-CNN.com

                              We Just Want the Truth! CNN:The world's leader of liars 西–’“污”‘*›Š“…纪•Anti-CNN.com,Anti-BBC.com,Anti-VOA.com

                              But then like your Communist govt, you scurry up the moral high pedestal, horrendously obfuscate and hide the real truth!

                              If the reasons that you claim are the reasons for your coming on international forum and is the real truth, then, how come you all did not come earlier?

                              Did all what you stated as being the reasons, happen only in Mar 2008?

                              I do appreciate your concern about the 'pre-matured nation' (whatever that means!) India and its children. How is it that it you woke up suddenly to this issue and it broke your heart?!

                              And what has that got to do with your appearing in hordes on the internet?

                              BTW why did your tears not flow like the Huang Ho earlier?

                              It must have happened before Mar 2008, right?

                              Quit trying to play the goat!
                              Last edited by Ray; 31 Mar 08,, 18:58.


                              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                              HAKUNA MATATA

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                              • #30
                                Ray sir,

                                Labeling all of us as Chinese Communist posters including a young nice bright Chinese schoolgirl should not be the honest and honorable way to attack China by a person with your caliber.

                                Did I mention Tibet in my last post? You are welcome to bring Tibet issue on.

                                In my last post, I was talking about whether others should take our posts seriously or not.

                                You can also make your interpretation for the freedom of speech in your way and only take those opinions that you agree or you think is correct seriously and disregard what you disagree and you think is not correct.

                                Your post made me respecting Indians more and more, because you care about Tibetans more than half of your kids suffering from malnutrition.

                                It is truly incredible that not even one word from our India friends about their child malnutrition issue despite the fact I repeat this issue again and again.

                                Ray sir, do you think that you and other Indians are honest in avoiding India’s child malnutrition issue. Or you don’t care about it at all.

                                You guys talked about how rich the super rich Indians are, 4 in the top 10 richest persons on the planet, you talked about how powerful Tata is muscling the world, you talked about how Indians are developing hi-tech weapons.

                                What about half of your kids? Give them voting right to avoid giving them food? Tell them that Indians have a great Tibet cause and they should be hungry and stay that way for sometime?

                                Is India’s child malnutrition totally an unimportant issue for you and rest of the Indians here to even talk about?

                                That is really realy unbelievable.
                                Last edited by Zeng; 31 Mar 08,, 20:51.
                                I am here for exchanging opinions.

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