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  • Originally posted by middle earth View Post
    Yuan and Qing is not exactly the same thing. There is a Tibet independent movement, and there is a Xinjiang independent movement, never heard of a Manchuria independent movement, at least it’s not an issue in China. The reason why, Most Manchurians abandoned their homeland and emigrated to Han Chinese people’s land, while Han Chinese immigrated to Manchuria with Qing royal court’s grant. It happened quite late in Qing dynasty, at first Qing forbade Han Chinese
    to move into Manchuria, late in Qing, facing Russia’s eastward movement and successive years of great famine in Shandong and Henan provinces, the Qing court abandoned that policy.
    It could also be due to the toxic legacy of the puppet Japanese Manchukuo state. After that debacle, any Manchu nationalism would be looked down on.

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    • Manchurians are a tiny minority in today’s Manchuria, with far less population than Koreans, they have neither the will or means to seek independence.

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      • Originally posted by cataphract View Post
        It could also be due to the toxic legacy of the puppet Japanese Manchukuo state. After that debacle, any Manchu nationalism would be looked down on.
        Manchukuo was partly some Chinese problem, mainly a Japanese making. When the last emperor abdicated, he reached a concession with the incoming government that the royal family continued to live in the royal palace with an annual grant. Later China entered the warlord period, and one general drove the royal family out and rescinded the grant. It is not the worst part, yet another general looted the royal tomb to fund his troops, still worse, the troops left the royal remains around, the ousted emperor was so furious he vowed to take revenge, when the Japanese offered the chance, he rushed to embrace it. It is not history, it’s what's behind history.

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        • Originally posted by middle earth View Post
          Manchukuo was partly some Chinese problem, mainly a Japanese making. When the last emperor abdicated, he reached a concession with the incoming government that the royal family continued to live in the royal palace with an annual grant. Later China entered the warlord period, and one general drove the royal family out and rescinded the grant. It is not the worst part, yet another general looted the royal tomb to fund his troops, still worse, the troops left the royal remains around, the ousted emperor was so furious he vowed to take revenge, when the Japanese offered the chance, he rushed to embrace it. It is not history, it’s what's behind history.
          Fascinating stuff. I was under the impression that Pu-Yi, being weak-willed, was coerced by the Japanese into becoming a puppet after the Mukden incident.

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          • Originally posted by middle earth View Post
            Manchurians are a tiny minority in today’s Manchuria, with far less population than Koreans, they have neither the will or means to seek independence.
            Do they still identify themselves as Manchus rather than Hans? Is the Manchu language still alive?

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            • A lot of ethnic Manchurians were partially assimilated and chose to drop their identity due to fears of Han retaliation after the end of the Qing dynasty.

              I think the difference between the British Empire and the Qing Empire is that the Qing Empire adopted the styling of a Chinese dynasty, claiming China not as a colony but as the core territory. It would have been as if the British decided to stop being British and claim that they were Indians instead and move the capital from London to Delhi.

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              • Originally posted by cataphract View Post
                Do they still identify themselves as Manchus rather than Hans? Is the Manchu language still alive?
                According to a study conducted several years ago, only six old people could speak the tongue in natural surroundings.

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                • Originally posted by middle earth View Post
                  According to a study conducted several years ago, only six old people could speak the tongue in natural surroundings.
                  There's been a rescue/revival effort for the language, officially and otherwise. Jump to the 'current situation' section on this wiki page: Manchu people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and you may follow the foot notes (all news sites in simplified Chinese though). However this effort is quite recent. Only in 2007 Xinhua reported that less than 100 can speak the Manchu language, siting a Ministry of Education official (link, also in simplified Chinese). That same year Southern Weekend did a lengthy and emotional editorial with a title 'The Moment the Manchu Language Perishes' (link). And by 2011 it was reported at least 2,000 people were 'using' the language at that time. There is a dedicated Manchu online community now. This section has a collection of teaching materials of the language: Manjusa. I'm not sure if there's an imput method for the language on computers though. All I see in that community/forum is romanized Manchu.

                  Also as I understand there are two universities in Taiwan that are giving courses on the Manchu language since the first half of the 2000s.
                  夫唯不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。

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                  • According to statistics published by NEW CHINA NET, Manchu population in China is 10.68 million, with the bulk of them living in Liaoning province. No more than 100 people truly understand the language, among them, fewer than 10 persons are proficient.

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