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346 + 289 Terrorists neutralised in Northern Iraq

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  • 346 + 289 Terrorists neutralised in Northern Iraq

    According to US and Turkish Intelligence reports which were broadcast on world media networks, the following are the casualties suffered by both sides during Operation Northern Iraq conducted by Turkey in the recent days:

    PKK Terrorists netralised:
    First Strike- 346
    Second Strike- 289

    Turkish Armed Forces:
    46 Marines
    2 Officers

    PKK Infrastructure Destroyed:
    290 Shelters, Communications Stations, Warehouses and Mt.Zap HQ's
    2 Anti-aircraft guns

  • #2
    Khan Han Reply

    635 terrorists neutralized? Links please?
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

    Comment


    • #3
      Genelkurmay Başkanlığı Resmi Kurumsal İnternet Sitesidir - Anasayfa - Turkish General Staff Official Web Site - Main Page

      TGS press release provides details about the first two strikes against PKK position in N.Iraq. Translation errors are mine.

      ....33 target groups comprising 200+ individual targets were confirmed as infrastructure and buildings being utilized by terrorists, and brought under fire by our fighter airplanes and land based fire support systems.

      ...Within this context, 3 command centers, 2 comms. facilities, 2 training facilities, 9 logistics facilities, 182 individual bunkers/barracks, 10 AA employments (along with their crew) and 14 ammunition/weapons stores have been destroyed.

      ...Althought work on terrorist losses continues, 150-175 terrorists located outside cover have been neutralized. This number does not include terrorists neutralized inside collapsed bunkers,barracks and caves.

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      • #4
        Teröristten annesine telefon: 346 arkadaşımız öldü / Türkiye / Milliyet İnternet

        Translation errors are mine.

        ...A terrorists phone call to his mother, from PKK's camp in Zap was intercepted.

        ...In the intercept the terroris mentions "We have lost 346 of our friends. There are many wounded, Our loss is immense. AA guns have also been destroyed. Camp Zap has been razed to the ground

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        • #5
          Ucar Reply

          My first thought is that this constitutes about 25% of their active forces. The targeting results are exceptional. I'm dubious that, given winter and forewarning, so much could be achieved but we've discussed that before.

          Still, my personal belief is that, aside from the encroachment upon Iraqi sovereignty, nobody anywhere (aside from the odd PKK sympathizer) should be displeased. At this rate, the PKK should cease to exist within DAYS.

          Problem solved. Peace everafter.

          I'll be glad. Bet Barzani is too (secretly). Sort of politically messy to use Peshmerga.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by S-2 View Post
            My first thought is that this constitutes about 25% of their active forces. The targeting results are exceptional. I'm dubious that, given winter and forewarning, so much could be achieved but we've discussed that before.

            Still, my personal belief is that, aside from the encroachment upon Iraqi sovereignty, nobody anywhere (aside from the odd PKK sympathizer) should be displeased. At this rate, the PKK should cease to exist within DAYS.

            Problem solved. Peace everafter.

            I'll be glad. Bet Barzani is too (secretly). Sort of politically messy to use Peshmerga.
            may i interfere?...

            personally i do not believe that after PKK there will be peace. because PKK is not a natural constitution.

            it is man-made, forged and founded on poor inveigled youngsters blood...

            my point is, as all know this "sudden approval" and "change of mind" of the US and the rest of the world about Turkish crossborder Military Operations in order to put an end to the existence of PKK can change again.

            and "the makers or forgers of PKK" can decide to give a start to another "so-called freedom fight movement"

            btw, we must analyse that what caused this "sudden change"....
            Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Big K View Post
              may i interfere?...

              personally i do not believe that after PKK there will be peace. because PKK is not a natural constitution.

              it is man-made, forged and founded on poor inveigled youngsters blood...

              my point is, as all know this "sudden approval" and "change of mind" of the US and the rest of the world about Turkish crossborder Military Operations in order to put an end to the existence of PKK can change again.

              and "the makers or forgers of PKK" can decide to give a start to another "so-called freedom fight movement"

              btw, we must analyse that what caused this "sudden change"....
              Slm BigK.
              I believe that the days of the PKK are nearly over. Their plight is similar to that of ASALA. The State forces behind the PKK (Including but not limited to nations such as Greece and the Greek Cypriot Administration) will cease to provide the financial support (Afterall, all their money will be spent for nothing as Turkey will just keep blowing them up from now on). Furthermore, Turkey is heavily acquiring high tech equipment such as Spy satelites in a bid to prevent the re-grouping of the terrorists and also to prevent the re-building of camps. Our Spy satelites such as the Gokturk 1 (which will have a resolution of 0.8m) will locate any terrorist activity thus alerting the Turkish Air Force to conduct pin-point operations.

              HOWEVER, this does not mean that we won't be hearing about the PKK anymore. It just means they will not be as sophisticated as before. They will try and target small civilian targets such as shopping centres etc. But, these too will cease to occur after about 5 years, as there will be no safe heaven for them to escape to (such as Mount Zap etc) after such bombings. Furthermore, according to Turkish media report the Management and Leaders of the PKK are all dead. Germany has also extradited the PKK's European leader so the PKK is being slowly exterminated.

              Comment


              • #8
                Just a question: was there any UN mandate or resolution or authorization of any kind that even hinted the use of force is OK?
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  Just a question: was there any UN mandate or resolution or authorization of any kind that even hinted the use of force is OK?
                  You don't need authorization to kill terrorists.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Under International Customary Law, Sovereign States have the legitimate right to self-defence, hence operations targeted at Terrorist organizations and the States supporting them are LEGAL. In fact, this is one of the reasons why the use of Nuclear weapons is not illegal under International Law as stated by the International Court of Justice in the Legality of Nuclear Weapons case.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Follow up

                      ...and moreover, PKK/Kongra-Gel is among the terrorist organizations recognized by a majority of states as such. The targets destroyed in these attacks have been confirmed both by US and Turkish sources as PKK-related.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Big K Reply

                        "...my point is, as all know this "sudden approval" and "change of mind" of the US and the rest of the world about Turkish crossborder Military Operations in order to put an end to the existence of PKK can change again."

                        Yes. There will come a time when the utility of these raids is exceeded by the issue of Iraqi sovereignty. Should Turkey exceed reasonable self-defense, the U.S. will have no choice but to intercede on Iraq's behalf. Certainly, Iraq cannot do so itself. If so, the Iraqi Army would already have acted- either to attack the PKK or the Turkish Army or both.

                        They can't. Turkey's political rationale for these incursions is firmly embedded as legitimate. However, it's a fine line that's being tread. As Iraq continues to develop, so too will her military capabilities. Turkey's more important consideration must be to determine the quality of it's relationship with an emerging Iraq (or Kurdistan, should Iraq fail).

                        Turkey's appearance of unilateral intervention certainly will appeal to the nationalist sentiments of most Turkish people. Many will be pleased at the discomfort that this issue creates for the American gov't. It would be disturbing to America were these raids to continue beyond their reasonable military utility. Do not be fooled by the lack of a formal and explicitly announced defense policy for Kurdistan. America is committed to it's security and Turkey needs to adjust to this reality. We've shown forebearance while attempting to work this issue to everybody's satisfaction. Others will need to do the same for a successful resolution to all involved parties.

                        Please know that our investment in Iraq is considerable. Both money and blood. Your cause may be just but must be weighed towards the greater good of the region. These actions erode, now, the sovereignty of Iraq. While not pleasant, it is bearable for America, Iraq, and Kurdistan for the NEAR-TERM. The continuance of these operations, though, can only hasten the creation of new and more dangerous circumstances far beyond the PKK's limited reach.
                        "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                        "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Barish View Post
                          You don't need authorization to kill terrorists.
                          Originally posted by Khan_Han View Post
                          Under International Customary Law, Sovereign States have the legitimate right to self-defence, hence operations targeted at Terrorist organizations and the States supporting them are LEGAL. In fact, this is one of the reasons why the use of Nuclear weapons is not illegal under International Law as stated by the International Court of Justice in the Legality of Nuclear Weapons case.
                          Originally posted by Ucar View Post
                          ...and moreover, PKK/Kongra-Gel is among the terrorist organizations recognized by a majority of states as such. The targets destroyed in these attacks have been confirmed both by US and Turkish sources as PKK-related.
                          So it's ok to invade or attack a sovereign nation without anything from the UN if that nation is deemed harboring terrorists or presents a threat?

                          OK, got it.
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            America is committed to it's security (Iraqs) and Turkey needs to adjust to this reality.
                            Well, Turkey is even more commited to its security and stability and the US needs to adjust to this reality. After years of inaction by the US against the PKK, it eventually boiled down to Turkey saying literally it's either Turkey or the Kurds of Northern Iraq. Make your pick. The US made a very wise choice and said Turkey. Period! After all, Turkey has been an ally for over 50 years, the Kurds for 5 years. Would you trust a newcommer?

                            Turkey takes very seriously its sovereignty and it won't shy away from protecting it, even if the one in front of it is a super power and even if it means anihlation. This was the case in the past and will also be the case in the future. This is Turkish ideology. Land and honour comes before life.

                            Basically, Turkey will not allow a country like Iraq (a former Ottoman Province whose borders are disputed since its inception) to threaten Turkey's security! They either choose to live in harmony and peace or face the consequences.

                            As Iraq continues to develop, so too will her military capabilities.
                            So too will the Turkish Military capabilities. Turkey will always have the upper hand in the region. The current procurement evidences this. National Tanks, National Corvettes and Frigates, Aircraft Carrier Project, LHD's and LPD's, Atack Helis, Spy Satellites all show that Turkey is not only significantly expanding its military capabilities but it is also becoming more and more independent. This is because Turkey knows too well that in order to maintain the balance in the region the US will not supply alot to Turkey. Hence, Turkey is gaining indegenous capabilities and also looking to alternatives such as the EU, China (for Balistic missiles), Russia and South Korea. This way it can acquire the numbers it wants not what numbers the country making the sale sets.

                            These actions erode, now, the sovereignty of Iraq.[
                            I'm sorry but the sovereignty of Iraq was eroded when the US invaded Iraq, in order to protect itself from Terrorism. Furthermore, when a country chooses to aid and abet terrorists, that countries sovereignty is eroded by itself, no one else.

                            Also, If we believe in the Sovereign equality of States no matter how large or small the country is in question, every State has a legitimate right to protect its borders. You cannot have double standards. One for the US and another for Turkey. Turkey was and still is under an imminent threat. The US was not under imminant danger and it acted. Turkey was not at war and it was giving more civilian casualties in the Streets of Istanbul and Ankara than was occuring in a war situation such as in Iraq. We were loosing 12 people per day due to PKK activities. You surely cannot expect us to worry about anothers sovereignty when our own sovereignty was under threat, due to PKK seperatists.
                            Last edited by Khan_Han; 28 Dec 07,, 01:33.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                              So it's ok to invade or attack a sovereign nation without anything from the UN if that nation is deemed harboring terrorists or presents a threat?

                              OK, got it.
                              Thats why nothing was said to NATO or the US in the Balkans, Afganistan or Iraq!

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