I think BB-33, the USS Arkansas was active and commisioned the longest, not as an experimental or non-combatant ship
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Good detective work :dbanana I believe Arky was indeed the longest continous serving battleship in the USN and the only battleship during WW II to carry 12-inch guns. For that matter I think she was only battleship in the world at that time with 12-inch guns. (I'm not including the Alaska-class Large Cruisers in that count.)“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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What exactly is the difference between a cruiser, destroyer, frigate and battleship? Just the size?Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
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That is a loaded question my friend! :D
You'll need to narrow down the time period you are talking about, not to mention the country.
For shits and giggles I'll use the WWII period and the USN.
Generally speaking, a battleship will mount the heaviest gun and protection against same as the designed tonnage will allow. Generally, the speed will be secondary to these things.
There were always exceptions of course. The North Carolinas were armed with 16-inch guns but only armored against 14-inch gunfire (that's another story entirely) and the Iowas were a total exception due to their high speed. Never before and not since (the Montanas) was a class of USN battleships specifically designed for high speed.
A cruiser was designed with either 8-inch (heavy cruiser) or 6-inch (light cruiser) guns and generally armored against same although in the case of cruisers, speed was considered more important.
A destroyer was designed for high-speed most of all. Armor was almost non-existant and guns were generally a handful of 5-inch guns. Destroyer Escorts carried smaller numbers of everything and usually carried 3-inch guns.
I guess it all depends on your guns, your armor and your speed. There were always exceptions like the Atlanta-class Anti-Aircraft Light Cruisers. These were basically over-sized destroyers armed with a load of 5-inch twin mounts but almost no armor. They were not meant for surface action but several were lost in this role during the Guadalcanal campaign because so few ships were available.
Edit: A frigate was generally an ocean-going convoy escort though the USN used Destroyer Escort for the most part during WWII. The USN ship "definitions" during the post-war era were utter chaos compared to most of the rest of the world. For example, they called destroyers and cruisers "frigates" for years.Last edited by TopHatter; 29 Sep 03,, 22:06.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Regarding that post on this thread where I talked about the myth of a battleship being shoved sideways when they fire a broadside, here is a great post from warships1.com here“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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That would be the battlewagon known as "Big Mamie" as I recall. The 2 events you refer to occured half a world away from each other, against two very different foes.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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What was the Big Mamie? What's the stories behind both firings in anger?Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
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Big Mamie was the battleship Massachusetts. Basically she engaged the French battleship Jean Bart in North Africa in 1942 and then finished the war in the Pacific against Japan in 1945“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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BB-54 or BB-59? According to the chart, it doesn't seem that either one of those was around in 1942. It seems BB-59 was commision in 1943 at the earliest.Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
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Originally posted by bigross86
BB-54 or BB-59? According to the chart, it doesn't seem that either one of those was around in 1942. It seems BB-59 was commision in 1943 at the earliest.
As for BB-59, she was commisioned on May 12 1942 and engaged the Jean Bart November 8, 1942 as part of Operation Torch, the invasion of North Africa. The action took place at Casablanca, Morocco. the Jean Bart was unfinished and moored at a pier.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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What's the point of firing on an unfinshed ship? And how does one ship get transferred from what I asume was LANTFLT to PACFLT? Aren't they like ultra-strict about those thing? And what's the 60-40 split?Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
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Well, the Jean Bart was firing at THEM! I think she had perhaps a single turret operational.
As far the LANTFLT and PACFLT, when fit hits the shan, the ships moved whereever they are needed and as fast as humanly possible. Most, if not all, of the battleships did their shakedown cruises, workups etc. with LANTFLT since all of the battleships were built on the East Coast. Initially, some battleships like USS Washington served with the British Grand Fleet in early 1942 before transferring to the Pacific. At least one battleship that I can remember went from Pacific to Atlantic and then back to the Pacific (USS Nevada, which was present at Normandy).
Eh, 60-40 split?:ermm“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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I read it in a book somewhere. Something about one fleet getting 60% of all weapons, funding, men, ships, etc... and the other fleet getting 40%Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
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Yes, probably. I havent read that but I'll go out on a limb and say it was the PACFLT that got the funding, especially if you are referring to the USN during WWII.
At first especially though, the Pacific Theatre of Operations (PTO) wasnt given a whole lot to work with. Churchill and Roosevelt made their famous "Germany First" agreement and so until US industry really geared up, it was the European Theatre of Operations that received the most attention and rightfully so. Keeping Great Britain in the war was paramount and against the U-Boat menace the US needed to throw a lot of resources. This is not to say that the PTO was totally ignored but the Guadalcanal operation was a good indication of this Germany First policy. It was referred to as Operation Watchtower, but given the lack of supplies and equipment allocated to it, people referred to it as Operation Shoestring. Later on though, the vast majority of USN ships and manpower was devoted to the PTO. The LANTFLT was supplied with many escort carriers, destroyers and cargo ships because that's what was really needed there. The Axis had a tiny surface fleet compared to the Japanese and the British Grand Fleet could handle it well enough (although the Kriegsmarine was far from a pushover) that almost all USN fleet carriers were in the PTO. The only exception was USS Ranger who was too small and too "fragile" to operate in the PTO. Mostly she was aircraft ferry and supported amphibious landings.
You'll also note that only a handful of USN battleships were at Normandy and these were rather elderly compared to the newer battleships in the Pacific.
It was all about "Where do we need it and where can we do without it?"
After Germany's surrender, it was all a moot point as virtually all heavy units of the LANTFLT sailed for the Pacific and the final showdown with the Japanese. Remember, they were expecting to launch Downfall, the landings in the Japanese Home Islands.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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