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Thread: Bring Back The Iowa Class Discussion And Debate

  1. #106
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    The DD-X will supposedly have a 155mm AGS gun system.

    We'll see.

  2. #107
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    Ive seen the DD-X and I really dont know what to say about it except it looks like to came from someones fantasy, besides how much lead can you put on a target with a 155?

  3. #108
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    Quite a lot actually.

    AGS is a fully automated mount, and a single AGS mount is supposed to match the mass of fire of a land based 155mm Battalion.

    We'll see.

  4. #109
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    Sure I can believe that with the auto fire mechanisms they can get a pretty good barrage, but I mean can they Do what the Big J did and Knock out a Bunker several dozen feet underground?

  5. #110
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    No.

    The entire USAF B-52 fleet surging at once cannot match the weight of fire of just a single Iowa class battleship firing a 1 hour saturation barrage.

    Each turret on an Iowa is the rough equivelant, WRT weight of fire, to an entire brigade of US Army 155mm Artillery.
    Last edited by Bill; 08 Apr 05, at 19:37.

  6. #111
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    "The entire USAF B-52 fleet surging at once cannot match the weight of fire of just a single Iowa class battleship firing a 1 hour saturation barrage."

    Within how many miles of the coast? Equating B-52s with battleships is ludicrous. LOL

  7. #112
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    23 nautical miles.(or 90nm with 11" DARPA sabot shells)

    And you're right. It is a ridiculous comparison.

    Conventionally armed B-52s could never realistically match the weight of fire, sustainability, or immediate availability of 16" gunfire.

  8. #113
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    A BB has the primary role of ambassador. Unfotunately its life (or re-vivification?) depends, ironically, on politics. As I keep banging on - it is cash and control of government/governence that constitute the primary weapons in any military.

    If you love them as I do, see the logic as well; get your bums off the firing range and into DC. Excuse the spelling. Daft buggers.
    Where's the bloody gin? An army marches on its liver, not its ruddy stomach.

  9. #114
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    Speaking of BBs its a damn shame the UK sacked the Vanguard.

  10. #115
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    I Agree. Either reintroducing the Battleship, or constructing a new class is definitely in our best interest. For further justification:

    Modern ships are not armored, look at the damage the USS Tripoli, Stark, and Cole received from minor attacks.

    By nature of being designed to physically enter ranged combat, against a vessel of similiar type, the Battleship is very nearly impervious to most weaponry. (Yes I know a nuke could destroy it, but Nukes will eliminate everything save cockroaches, so let's not get off onto a tangent)

    The only problem with BB's, seems to be their unquenchable thirst. Why not convert to Nuclear power? The cost is much lower than the DDX and CGX, especially with the lower capability quotient of those vessels.

    Building a new class would be difficult, as the tooling and machinery to roll heavy armor plate no longer exists, I do believe the max is around 4 inch capability now. This could be overcome by simply sandwiching the plating, so it is not a major concern. Furthermore, cost is a major issue. What threat justifies a new class?

    PRC's navy is rather pathetic, as is NK. The Former Soviet Union can't afford to keep the lights turned on on the ships they do have. So, what justifies?

    Polital influence! A battleship is a great big extention of political power, in addition to being a sizable chunk of military hardware. Lebanon and Libya both cowered in the face of these girls, and several other nations with ports and coastlines are in desperate need of "re-calibration", I.E. Saudi Arabia, NK, Indonesia, etc. (For 2 cents I would add France to the list!)

    With Modern upgrades and pehaps a redisigned bow (better hydrodynamics) the existing battleships could soldier on for QUITE awhile. Would be much better than a new class of technogarbage than can be nearly sunk by two losers in a zodiac.

    Aircraft threats against a BB are not as high as some tend to think, with modern radar, ANY ship can detect incoming aircraft at close to 100nm, (Some further, with airborne early warning, etc) also, the CWIS (formerly known as Phalanx) is terribly effective against incoming aircraft, just mount the correct number, and keep them fed! Also the RAM missile, Stinger, etc. can further add to the defence of the asset. If anything does get through, well um, there is the problem of armor, saying of course the pilot was good enough to hit the target (lots of them miss when shot at, even on BIG targets.)

    The 16 inch guns could be retained, or newer type fitted. With Nuclear power, Gauss (electromagnetic cannon) could be utilized (eventually after they perfect it!) Until then Standard cannon with RAP capability would work quite well.

    Hope I helped, Have more but I shall refrain for now, to see where this goes.

  11. #116
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    A modern Battleship would no doubt dispense with the mass of heavy mono-steel plate and utilize a layered composite structure just as modern tanks do.

    Because of that, a modern BB would be as invulnerable to enemy fire as it was expensive...

  12. #117
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    Gentleman,
    If i may..The idea of bringing the battleships back into service is an absolutely heart stiring manuver. My father was a battleship sailor among other things during World War II he was stationed to the Iowa in 44. I have been around the Iowa class battleships for a good majority of my life. They were my favorite part of the Philly Naval Yard as I was growing up namely between 1974- 1990's. (We had 3 of them here at one time) I will never forget watching the tugs pull them from mothballs all the traffic on the bridges came to a complete stop as Ronald Reagan ordered it so. And a banner that was flying beside our flag at the Naval Yard that read "Awaken the Dreadnoughts". I have the luxery of seeing the New Jersey any time I want to as she is just across the river and I still closely watch the Philly Navy Yard for movements of other ships. Two weeks ago America (cv66) left for its final time. Soon Des Moines CA134 (our only wwII 8" gunned cruiser will leave for good as well hopefully to the museum foundation. Phillys yard will be empty for the first time that I can ever remember. These ships are a valuable part of our past. The are a symbol of our courage and our might. They are also a symbol of the men who put to sea not knowing if they would ever see their home again. (guys like my father). At 80 years old to see the tears in his eyes when he sees one again and hear him say.. Thats when men were men, they fought high seas duals and one lived and one died and thats they way it was. Amen. I cant say that it would be our best move to reinstate them. But what I do know is that we are the only country that retains 8 of them... 1 Dreadnought (Texas) 3 Fast (Carolina, Mass, and Alabama) and the 4 Iowa's (Jersey, Iowa, Wiskey and Miss.) If the world goes crazy we may need them again one day so I hope we weill always keep them either as a museum or as active. This coming weekend I get to see a familiar face the Wissconsin BB64 I hope to post some images soon. And i will try to post images of the Des Moines next week as she sits in the Philly Naval Yard at present. Thanks.

  13. #118
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    Where you live in Philly man?

    I live in the N.E.

  14. #119
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    Welcome to the board. Always nice to have a fellow battleship fan around here

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    Two weeks ago America (cv66) left for its final time.
    Wasn't she supposed to be sunk last month? Does anybody know if this actually happened? I wonder if there was a delay or something. I sure as heck hope they make public some pictures or even even a bit of video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    Soon Des Moines CA134 (our only wwII 8" gunned cruiser will leave for good as well hopefully to the museum foundation.
    *Confused* What about USS Salem(CA-139)?
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  15. #120
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    Des Moines and Salem

    Hey Guys,
    The Des Moines CA134 hasnt left yet. I can say this as I pass her every day on the way to work. She was supposedly given to a museum foundation in Milwaukee. The finalization of the deal hasnt happened yet. But she is supposed to leave Philly Naval Yard sometime this summer. My bust on the other comment, What I meant was we no longer have the guns we once had here. The Salem CA139 is already a museum in Quincy Massachusetts on the Fore River and sister to the Des Moines. Of her sister ships outside of these two have not survived the breakers. The Newport News CA148 was broken up in April 1993. The Des Moines foundation had to come up with the money to tow her out of Philly to where the drydock work will be performed on her before arriving at her new home in Milwaukee's Veterans Park. If they cant come up with the money then she will be towed into the Atlanic and sunk by either heavy gun, torpedo or rocket fire as a natural reef. Much the same fate as CV66 America has sucomed to just a few days ago. It was very impressive to see the escort she recieved as navy tugs (YTB's) and a Destroyer accompanied her down the Delaware to the Chesapeak Bay. Been awhile since ive seen any (YTB's.) What a massive ship America was. Like I posted earlier I sort of have an "in" at the Navy Yard so I hope to get some pics of Des Moines posted soon. And I will certainly get pics of her leaving the Yard and her journey down the Delaware for the last time. (She has called philly home since 1961 according to the yard master her service ended in 1958.) At almost the size of a Pennsylvania Class Battleship she will definately stop traffic when they pull her out of the yard and into the main channel.
    Oh and TopHatter the America was scheduled for destruction sooner then a month ago but I guess they dont really give anybody the real story these days probably a Department of Homeland Security thing. But thats why I watch the Yard and not what they say : )
    I could have gotten shots of her too but she was in an area of the Yard thats still restricted.. the foundry (The shops where they did a majority of service work for the battleships, i.e. armor, guns and props.). That area still looks funny missing the Hammerhead Cranes and all. Well im out.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 17 May 05, at 18:07.

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