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  • #16
    Anything you propose will be flatly rejected and ignored by both sides, to be quite honest.

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    • #17
      This is the UN. propose good flowery stuff. think
      O of E, te Great China Expert, any comments?

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      • #18
        Despite everyone's desire to pretend nuclear weapons don't exist they do. When the day comes that two nuclear armed nations go to war unless one has its nuclear weapons destroyed before they can be used the end result of the war will be a nuclear exchange. No nuclear armed country is going to lose a war of national survival or of its vital interest without using their nuclear weapons. Those who think nuclear weapons won't be used in warfare again are simply knights who long for the day before the gun was invented.

        Nations need to consider this before they push things too far and assume the other guy won't use nuclear weapons.

        I think we will see nuclear weapons used in war or we are going to find out that some of our vital interest aren't really that vital.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by M21Sniper
          That's an obvious attempt to deter us from hitting their brain, since they know that's our SOP.
          Not so much as a deterance as a desperation. The CCP dies with the CMC HQ. And you have to understand something so drastic that I'm not sure Americans can understand.

          The PLA is willing to accept defeat over Taiwan.

          The CCP is not.

          Originally posted by Franco Loran
          any advice on Taiwan Topic you can give me? What disarmament, if any, could Germany propose, in your opinion?
          From the German side, it would be viewed as an attempt to soften the situation. Great for domestic politics but in actual fact, very little to do with China. Quite frankly, Germany has very little to offer the PRC (Mainland) over the ROC (Taiwan). Taiwan would hurt alot more without German trade than the Mainland but by no means is it intolerable.

          German military technology is quite expensive and is well beyond what the PLA can afford (but not what the RoCA can afford). The Russians would get rich off China long before Germany would see a cent. The last example is the submarine batteries the PLAN wanted for their Kilos. In all, this was less than a $2mil order, hardly worth the expense and letting the Chinese build upon the learned expertise.

          In my opinion, the best anyone could offer is direct military intervention in any conflict between the Mainland and Taiwan. It would be a very clear signal that the world is willing and can live without Chinese trade.

          What should also be made clear is that Taiwan do not have a free hand. If they provoked war, they're on their own.

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          • #20
            Roger.

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            • #21
              "The PLA is willing to accept defeat over Taiwan.

              The CCP is not."

              Probably because the former is a pragmatic institution that has a grip on reality, while the latter is an idealological institution that does not. ;)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by M21Sniper
                "The PLA is willing to accept defeat over Taiwan.

                The CCP is not."

                Probably because the former is a pragmatic institution that has a grip on reality, while the latter is an idealological institution that does not. ;)
                You know, you may not know it but your line just cracked me up. Why should the PLA have it any better than the rest of us?

                Reminds me of an old joke describing the old Soviet Union,

                The biggest difference between the USSR and Canada is that the Soviets have only one single organized political party.

                We have none.

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                • #23
                  Lol

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                  • #24
                    What's 3 miles long and vegetarian?
                    The Q for a Sov. butcher
                    Where's the bloody gin? An army marches on its liver, not its ruddy stomach.

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                    • #25
                      Don’t think PLA would use the nukes outside their territory, 12 sea miles border and 400 sea miles economic developing area. If the US declares war with the PLA within this boundary, it's a different story. I don't think two nations would step up to that level of warfare over an island like Taiwan. And Taiwan was the one most likely to start it. So, holding the issue as it is like right now works fine for China, and we have to admit, even the communist party gone, the new government in mainland would not change a bit on Taiwan issue since the whole nation's people see Taiwan as part of china's. I can’t see why Chinese should deserve special “treatment” when come to country’s unity, just like the Germans and the future of Korea. In this case, I can’t see how the other country’s “help” would bring the “peace” in the region for ever if not, a long lasting conflicts with people killing each other by arms year after year. It will be far worse than Kashmir and Israel conflicts. I made a reply early in other topic; I will just post here.
                      ================================================== ==========
                      Both PRC and ROC’s governments were claim the land of China. PRC’s territory includes Taiwan and ROC’s territory includes mainland as well. The independence of Taiwan is a movement to separate for Taiwan to “give up” their mainland part. It involves the change of the constitutions and a whole lot more than just saying it. It is a reverse story of the Korea and Germany, which, the communist side was stronger than the other side. Mainland does not demand an immediate unite of the Taiwan in this matter but such independent can not be tolerated. The land is belonging to the Chinese people no matter who was the governing body and what kind it is.

                      I have said even the communist party falls in such matter in mainland; it can not change Chinese to take back the land they owned. Or, on the other hand, if the Taiwan has the ability, they also have the rights to retake the mainland back as well. Mainland china offered a solution, just like Hong Kong, Taiwan could keep their govern system, their social structure and even keep their military, but to become as a special state of china. However, recent two leaders of Taiwan refused such talks and tried to push such movement to separate Taiwan from china. Even Taiwan’s parliament was worrying about their president's movement to lead to a disaster. Such action is unconstitutional in Taiwan neither. That’s why the leader now is trying to push a change of constitution. Taiwan’s status should not only be decided by part of the people, but including the mainland people as well.

                      The Taiwan government lost their status of a valid Chinese governing body years ago, technically, they were illegal, however, the U.S played a important part of keeping it exist as a front to against “communist”. But still, it’s part of Chinese territory.

                      Keeping it as is like right now, could benefit everyone on this issue, but independence does not.

                      Just like you can’t say your family will declare as an independent “state” from your country, just because you own your land and write your own law. Or, can you?


                      Anyway, I will say it again, its fine to stay as is like right now from the mainland, but any independence in Taiwan would not be tolerated by majority of Chinese people. I DO hope the world community could step in and play a part to prevent them making such stupid moves which could suck us all in a big mess. If china and U.S and also other nations could play out this well, our relations would be much improved and we will feel a lot less threatened with each other.

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                      • #26
                        In my opinion, the best anyone could offer is direct military intervention in any conflict between the Mainland and Taiwan. It would be a very clear signal that the world is willing and can live without Chinese trade.

                        What should also be made clear is that Taiwan does not have a free hand. If they provoked war, they're on their own.

                        ================================================== ========

                        Oh yeah, I believe the trade issue was not china trying to “buy" the "rights" to attack Taiwan first, but, instead, to improve economic ties and relationships with other nations and convince them not to promote such move toward Taiwan’s independence, which we can all benefit from it. So, don't misunderstand it. For the last part, I couldn’t agree more. :)
                        Last edited by k19; 01 Feb 05,, 13:14.

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                        • #27
                          [QUOTE=k19]In my opinion, the best anyone could offer is direct military intervention in any conflict between the Mainland and Taiwan. It would be a very clear signal that the world is willing and can live without Chinese trade.

                          What should also be made clear is that Taiwan does not have a free hand. If they provoked war, they're on their own.

                          QUOTE]
                          Realistically I don't see the Int Comm as a whole intervening.

                          I agree that Taiwan can't provoke or they're on they're own.

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