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What If Subhash Chandra Bose had marched upto Delhi?

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  • #46
    The INA had commanders. They were just wearing Japanese insignias. Hitesh, you're assuming the Japanese were going to let the INA have free reign.

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    • #47
      What I am saying is that the Japanese has no choice but to give the INA free reign in order to achieve their strategic objectives. They need India as an ally and INA won't stand around and let Japanese order them around. There's a myth that INA was following Japanese orders. That is not the case at all. Yes they did work with Japanese soldiers and officers but INA retained their own command structure and Bose was the head of the INA. If Japanese wanted something, they had to go through Bose.

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      • #48
        But they did choose. They chosed not to support Bose and treated him as a puppet

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        • #49
          I do realized that a large portion of INA soldiers were captured POWs. BUt remember that a large portion of British INdian Army defected to the INA of their own free will.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
            I don't believe it would be that easy. You are giving Indians way too far less credit. Don't be such a narcissist.
            Or are you being overly optimistic, I rather have India win all the time. I am not going to accept that defected Indian LT.Commander's would better than battle-hardened Brit Generals.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
              What I am saying is that the Japanese has no choice but to give the INA free reign in order to achieve their strategic objectives. They need India as an ally and INA won't stand around and let Japanese order them around. There's a myth that INA was following Japanese orders. That is not the case at all. Yes they did work with Japanese soldiers and officers but INA retained their own command structure and Bose was the head of the INA. If Japanese wanted something, they had to go through Bose.
              Retained their command structure in what level?
              Indians planned actions with Japanese Generals?

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              • #52
                There were no Indian generals in WWII and yet after independence, there were plenty of Indian generals and they have proved their mettle in later battles. So that contradicts your assertions regarding Indian Lt. Colonels' ability to lead.

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                • #53
                  It took 1962 to wake the InA up and the Chinese did you a favour by not pushing their momentum. Slim would not be so charitable.

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                  • #54
                    If Slim was to be assasinated, would things turn out to be different? By the way, the reason why PLA did not press their momentum was because they had exhausted their logistic chains and were sitting ducks if they continue to remain there.

                    By the way, do remember that the British officers were far more ruthless in 1857 and yet they nearly lost India to a disorganized bunch of groups led by senior NCOs and inept Indian leaders. We would only require 4 more regiments breaking away and it would be the end of the British presence. In the 1940s, INA was not like the disorganized bunch of soldiers. It had competent officers and leaders.
                    Last edited by Blademaster; 11 Dec 07,, 20:51.

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                    • #55
                      Slim assassinated?
                      What kind of variables are we looking at over here?
                      And I dont consider fighting Brit Army of 'those days' as the same as Pakistan and that too with 70,000 men. Kiyani who led a Division only had 10 years of military experience and very very low on resources. INA did a splendid job with what they had, but they didnt have it in them to fight off set-peice battle's.

                      And those Great Indian Generals, became great through time; not in ten years.
                      Last edited by Adux; 11 Dec 07,, 21:13.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                        It took 1962 to wake the InA up and the Chinese did you a favour by not pushing their momentum. Slim would not be so charitable.
                        Sir,

                        PLA couldnt push forward anymore!! I dont want to be a person who offers excuses, a defeat is a defeat but we hadnt put our resources and strength including the IAF into battle, for political stupidity of Kesva Menon and Nehru.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          If Slim was to be assasinated, would things turn out to be different?
                          Never thought of that. 1st thought was that the Japanese would have penetrated deeper and might have just held onto Burma until war's end. How much would that changed the strategic picture, I don't know. Remember the Japanese lost the war through the Pacific and in Northern China. Would that have given the INA a proper staging ground and rallying point, I don't know.

                          Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          By the way, the reason why PLA did not press their momentum was because they had exhausted their logistic chains and were sitting ducks if they continue to remain there.
                          I told you that, remember, but you've missed my point here. Battle momentum is vital if you are to achieve victory. The Chinese did not planned nor desired to push their momentum beyond their immediate objectives. But that does not mean that they were without options. Do recall in the Korean War that they even try to block 8th Army's retreat with a single company at the end of 8th Army's retreat ... and they suffered big time for their efforts ... but look at what their efforts bought them - a propaganda victory that overshadowed the military disaster they've just endured.

                          With respects to Slim in this case, the point was that Slim would not let a chance to destroy his enemy slip away.

                          Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          By the way, do remember that the British officers were far more ruthless in 1857 and yet they nearly lost India to a disorganized bunch of groups led by senior NCOs and inept Indian leaders. We would only require 4 more regiments breaking away and it would be the end of the British presence. In the 1940s, INA was not like the disorganized bunch of soldiers. It had competent officers and leaders.
                          Again, they were hamstrung by the Japanese. All the campaigns were devised by the IJA, not the INA, and the IJA took the main thrusts while leaving the subordinate, though important, actions to the INA. They were the force protection for the campaign, not the main thrust.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Adux View Post
                            Slim assassinated?
                            What kind of variables are we looking at over here?
                            And I dont consider fighting Brit Army in 'those days' as the same as Pakistan and that too with 70,000 thousand men. Kiyani who led a Division only had 10 years of military experience and very very low on resources. INA did a splendid job with what they had, but they didnt have it in them to fight off set-peice battle's.
                            Remember, the majority of the British Indian Army is 90% Indian. Now if we were to take snipers and shoot the majority of British officers, Slim if still alive would be running the army with such a paranoi and fear of the army turning against him that it would render the army practically useless like paralysis.

                            And those Great Indian Generals, became great through time; not in ten years.
                            Through peacetime yes. However war shortens the need of time required during peacetime to be great.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                              Remember, the majority of the British Indian Army is 90% Indian. Now if we were to take snipers and shoot the majority of British officers, Slim if still alive would be running the army with such a paranoi and fear of the army turning against him that it would render the army practically useless like paralysis.
                              Would not happen that way. Remember what kind of man Slim was. He was a soldier's soldier. He got the best out of people, most notably his Indian soldiers. From everything I've read, he instilled pride, confidence, and loyalty.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                                If Slim was to be assasinated, would things turn out to be different? By the way, the reason why PLA did not press their momentum was because they had exhausted their logistic chains and were sitting ducks if they continue to remain there.
                                Assasinate Bill Slim? Easy job, George Faser once notes that in Burma Slim was guarded by two lowly privates - he being one of them. Problem is, who would have thought to assign the job? Slim's genius was barely apparent during the war years; is hardly recognized even today outside interested circles! Retrospection is always 20/20.

                                The Chinese army's reasons for not pressing forward with further invasion of Indian territory has nothing to do with the fact that it proved fortuitous for Indian Army HQ. If anything it shows how markedly deficient Indian army higher leadership was in operational art compared to their counterparts in China.

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