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Is the French Leclerc tank "THE" ultimate tank??

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  • The colonel would have dressed this one down something fierce but now that Benny mentioned "Celine Dijon", he's not going to touch this thread with a ten foot pole.

    It's all Benny's fault.

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    • Poor Kitty....

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      • Guys from another not-so-newcomer.

        I'm not getting this inside joke about kittens and Celine Dijon(Dion?) :confu:

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        • Originally posted by SheisseGerat View Post
          Thanks, but that does not really help me particularly in the information I was looking for... At least not directly, if you could link me to such information either on the web or in books, I would be more than happy to read away!

          And no, I do not know what you mean by "introductions" exactly, because for every other forum I have ever been to the only "introductions" were people trolling me every way possible to try to make themselves come off as more intelligent than myself, but generally making themselves look like apes beating on their chests for attention (and that is the mentality of most anonymous, keyboard riding, "Forum Warriors.")

          But if there is a better form of "Introduction" to this forum, I would be more than happy to make my introductions.

          I know this is off-topic here but:

          I know about different nations testing the cannons from competing nations, but I have yet to find a SOLID lead on, well perhaps what I am looking for does not exist - but, I would really love to see as controlled as possible (as in every test performed in the exact same manner, using shells of all solid AP shot with the standard powder charge for said cannon - excluding any round that is not a "standard AP" round for the time, only types such as: AP, APC, APBC, and APCBC - no sub-caliber or composite KE type rounds or shaped charges) Just as a point of reference, as when I look at the size of, say, even the round of the 75mm L43/L48 round Vs. even, say, a 17 pounder, it looks nearly as large, and the measurements I can find support such notions. And we ALL know the 17 pdr was an incredibly effective cannon for its day - I was just wondering if it got such a reputation purely because of its APDS round, or if its AP round was at least in the same ballpark as that of the KWK 42 7.5 cm L70 (because the measurements I find show that the L70 round's casing was larger, by a decent margin too.) NTM, if I remember correctly, the 17 pounder was only at 55 caliber barrel length, and since it was essentially the same size projectile (17 pdr = 76.2mm KWK 42 7.5cm = 75mm) that means significantly less time in the tube, which normally would mean less velocity and less flat trajectory as well.


          Physically, it would seem that a 17 pdr cannon would have much less penetration with a solid AP-type round (Or really any round that is nearly identically constructed for each cannon, like if the KWK 42 had an APDS round instead of just APCR) than the KWK 42 75mm. To some of you this may be an old topic, ZRaver got me talking here about it, but I am guessing it is all somewhere on these forums, and I likely would be better off just searching and reading other people's debates. And I say debates deliberately, because as far as I am aware, whenever this topic comes up, it results in endless arguments and speculation.


          I am not saying I believe one way or the other, I am saying I genuinely do not know, but the evidence of my eyes seems to say that given a constant - in an experimental type situation where the 2 cannons were pitted against each other using as near identical shot types possible and largest recommended powder loads, the KWK 42 7.5 L70 would out perform the 17 pdr. Again I do not know or believe this is/was the case, especially with war-time conditions and all the variables it produces (material shortages and slave labor tend to cause lots of mfg. issues) - but I really would like to know, if possible, how those 2 such cannons would compare in controlled testing.

          Same goes with the 90mm M3 vs the KWK 36 and 43 (L53 and L71) as well as many others... That is the main reason I joined WAB, to ask such questions in hopes to obtain, genuine and honest answers with as little trolling bulls**t (I dunno this forum's swearing policy yet) possible. And if there is no CLEAR answer, I would at least like as many leads as possible to try to make sense of all the data myself, again, if possible.


          I suppose that is a sort of introduction, I am very interested in armored warfare, both modern and historic, and it seems to me that enough people have serious and level headed discussions about the exact sort of topics for which I have already inquired. OFC those questions were off topic for this thread, and I know that, but I got Z's attention, and I have seen him on basically every tank related thread on this site since I started reading it nearly a year ago.




          And thanks guys, it is always great to know an opinion is valued... Not that it was not what most people already knew/believed but I was just trying to find some point in which to jump to make my debut here.
          1st thread on the forum front page , its called , introduction thread for all , post there a little about yourself , likes dislikes , etc etc .

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          • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
            Guys from another not-so-newcomer.

            I'm not getting this inside joke about kittens and Celine Dijon(Dion?) :confu:
            When someone posts on a thread that's been dead for years (such as this one), that's called "necro posting". Acording to the internet lore* this can cause kitens to die horribly enmasse. I refuse to speak of Celine Dion. It gives me nightmares.





            *which is absolutely reliable and trustworthy...

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            • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
              When someone posts on a thread that's been dead for years (such as this one), that's called "necro posting". Acording to the internet lore* this can cause kitens to die horribly enmasse. I refuse to speak of Celine Dion. It gives me nightmares.
              Thanks for the explanation sir. Cats I can do without. Can't stand them frankly. Neither can my dogs.

              Celine looks like my wife's aunt who lives in Australia. I can't stand her either. Quite a busybody who cannot mind her own business.

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              • Celine , Canada's leading ambassador and best export has nothing to do with tanks ,,unless like the Col would wish ,,to be under one :tank:

                And I love cats me ,,DEAD ONES :whome:

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                • Tankie, did you just say you thought the Colonel wanted to be under a tank with Celine Dion?!?!??!
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

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                  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    Tankie, did you just say you thought the Colonel wanted to be under a tank with Celine Dion?!?!??!
                    Err , sort of :scared:

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                    • Originally posted by tankie View Post
                      Err , sort of :scared:
                      To quote my late grandfather who was born in Nova Scotia...You daft bastard!
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                        To quote my late grandfather who was born in Nova Scotia...You daft bastard!

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                        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                          Tankie, did you just say you thought the Colonel wanted to be under a tank with Celine Dion?!?!??!
                          No, I think tankie meant he thinks the colonel would like nothing better than to use his main gun to shoot a silver bullet right between Celine's back deck...

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                          • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                            When someone posts on a thread that's been dead for years (such as this one), that's called "necro posting". Acording to the internet lore* this can cause kitens to die horribly enmasse. I refuse to speak of Celine Dion. It gives me nightmares.
                            SWSNBN can die horribly en mass? If you really know how, I think I have a business proposal for you. Hope you accept lowlands single malt as currency.


                            *which is absolutely reliable and trustworthy...
                            Daring to even question it makes a dozen of very small kittens die instantly.
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                            • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                              No, I think tankie meant he thinks the colonel would like nothing better than to use his main gun to shoot a silver bullet right between Celine's back deck...
                              Wow, Yeller, you're less subtle than usual . . . .
                              "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                              • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                                No, I think tankie meant he thinks the colonel would like nothing better than to use his main gun to shoot a silver bullet right between Celine's back deck...
                                yea , yeaaaaa thats it , thatsssssss it :tankie:

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