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Thread: Who really won WWII?

  1. #1
    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
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    Who really won WWII?

    No, dont panic, this is not about which nations soldeirs had the longes reprodction organs, but about how victories the Victors really were and how much of a defeat it for the others.

    What I am talking about is for example the U.K. before the war one (or even the) most powerful Nations on the Earth, and even though it came out winning, its lost its empire though it is still a global power, its one among others.

    An obvious Victor would be the U.S. won the war and came out as one of two Super-powers the world would have for the next decades.

    On the other hand Germany lost the war, but at least in West-Germany you might had some problems to actually feel like it. Few years after the war the economy is able to compete (and even overtake) the U.K. and France, and while it was one of most brutal dictatorships the world had ever seen just few years before, it now has become a succesful and free democraty. Doesnt really sound that much of a loser.

    So which nation can really feel itseelf victorius?

  2. #2
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    The USSR? Hard to tell.

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    humanity won the second world war.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Officer of Engineers
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    The Allied victory is interconnected. There was no way for Moscow to sustain the defence of Stalingrad without Canadian ships blasting their way through the North Atlantic and Canadian ships would have no where to go if Great Britain fell.

    By the same token, the massive drain of Stalingrad allowed D-Day and Italy. India allowed Great Britain to keep Mid-East oil out of German hands and forced them to concentrate on that hell hole of the Russian Front.

    Take one country out of the Alliance and the entire historic context shifts away from what actually happened. The Allies might have still won but even without small countries like Canada, Australia, or India, it would have been that much harder and that much more bloodier.

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    Well put me old china.
    Its nice to see, soemone that see's the whole picture, rather then getting the ueual individuals spouting out... if it werent for us you be speaking german' noncence.
    Each country played its role, in its history. Some fared better in the end of others didnt, but the objective was complete and overall the Allies all won.

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    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The Allied victory is interconnected. There was no way for Moscow to sustain the defence of Stalingrad without Canadian ships blasting their way through the North Atlantic and Canadian ships would have no where to go if Great Britain fell.

    By the same token, the massive drain of Stalingrad allowed D-Day and Italy. India allowed Great Britain to keep Mid-East oil out of German hands and forced them to concentrate on that hell hole of the Russian Front.

    Take one country out of the Alliance and the entire historic context shifts away from what actually happened. The Allies might have still won but even without small countries like Canada, Australia, or India, it would have been that much harder and that much more bloodier.
    uh sorry but thats exactly what the topic was not supposed to be. Maybe I did wrote it understandable enough.M yquestion does not about whose effort ensured the downfall of the nazis, but actually profited from the war afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The Allies might have still won but even without small countries like Canada, Australia, or India, it would have been that much harder and that much more bloodier.
    None of these countries are small by any means and especially not India. I hope you meant that they were not as fully involved in this European mess as the European countires but then they had no reason to be.

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    Banned Defense Professional Bluesman's Avatar
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    I'd say ISRAEL won WWII.

  9. #9
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    Small as being power brokers themselves. They clearly were not.

  10. #10
    Banned Defense Professional Bluesman's Avatar
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    Y'all didn't understand his question.

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    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
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    Am I doing something wrong? Is my english so bad? I'll try it one las time:

    Who did profit from the outcome of the second WWII?

    The U.S. clearly did, so did the Soviet Union, but what for the UK or France? Are Japan and Germany really looking like the loser when compared to countries which were on the "winner" side?

    One Russian joke I got told by a Russian-German in school a few years ago went like thing.

    A young russian boy asks his father: "Father, if we had lost the big war, would we be as rich as the Germans are now?" (mh it does sound better in original...)

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    Banned Defense Professional Bluesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
    Am I doing something wrong? Is my english so bad? I'll try it one las time:

    Who did profit from the outcome of the second WWII?

    The U.S. clearly did, so did the Soviet Union, but what for the UK or France? Are Japan and Germany really looking like the loser when compared to countries which were on the "winner" side?

    One Russian joke I got told by a Russian-German in school a few years ago went like thing.

    A young russian boy asks his father: "Father, if we had lost the big war, would we be as rich as the Germans are now?" (mh it does sound better in original...)
    I got it. Everybody else wants to talk about CONTRIBUTION to victory; you want to know who had the biggest TAKE-AWAY from it.

    And I'd say Israel. The United States, already a Big Power, a serious playuh, incrementally increased her power to pre-eminence and world leadership. But ISRAEL went from non-existent to being able to defend herself from Day One, as a result of WWII's outcome. That sems to me to be the biggest comparitive 'profit'.

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    Hmmm interesting question, but Im not sure it can be answered.

    North and South Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan, Indonesia, Cambodia, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Madagascar, Ethiopia, Somalia, Libya, Sudan, in fact almost all of Africa, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Ukraine, Malta, Serbia, and 90% of the -stans were the big winners, considering they became nations out of colonies.

    But the trophy, I think obviously, must go to Israel.

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    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman View Post
    I got it. Everybody else wants to talk about CONTRIBUTION to victory; you want to know who had the biggest TAKE-AWAY from it.

    And I'd say Israel. The United States, already a Big Power, a serious playuh, incrementally increased her power to pre-eminence and world leadership. But ISRAEL went from non-existent to being able to defend herself from Day One, as a result of WWII's outcome. That sems to me to be the biggest comparitive 'profit'.
    I vote for Japan.

    -dale

  15. #15
    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman View Post
    I got it. Everybody else wants to talk about CONTRIBUTION to victory; you want to know who had the biggest TAKE-AWAY from it.

    And I'd say Israel. The United States, already a Big Power, a serious playuh, incrementally increased her power to pre-eminence and world leadership. But ISRAEL went from non-existent to being able to defend herself from Day One, as a result of WWII's outcome. That sems to me to be the biggest comparitive 'profit'.
    THANK YOU for getting my point, and I have to admit that I totaly forgot Israel even though its completly obvious. I am wondering if the Uk felt getting "cheated" by the events after WWII, winning the war, but losing the empire.

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