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Who really won WWII?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Firral View Post
    There is such saying " if the grandmother had a penis it would be the grandfather ". It I that it is impossible to speak " but if we had... (a nuclear bomb, planes, 50 aircraft carriers, the helicopter the Apache, tank Abrams ) ". You forget, that the bomb was not in the beginning of war and if the outcome of war was another probably it was at Germans earlier than in the USA. Here it is complex to argue, likely one Lord knows, how was "if".
    The Germans weren't beating the United States... anytime. So if we did decide to fight to the finish the Germans were in serious trouble. Having talked with a large number of WWII vets, I seriously doubt how much the American public would have been inclined to pursue that war if Britain were no longer in danger and Hitler had a very strong position on the continent... but if we did decide to fight until victory once we had nukes Germany was going to bleed.

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    • #32
      Again, this isn't about contributions, it's about aftermath. You've got a whole giant thread for discussing whether or not Germany could have won or not. :) Let us use this one for discussing what happened because they didn't. :)

      -dale

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Bluesman View Post
        What do you think of my earlier answer, 'Israel'? I think THEY won.
        I don't think much of it. Palestine was promised as a Jewish homeland, way before WWII. WWII led to halt in Jewish immigration by the Brits which undoubtedly increased the numbers of dead in the holocaust. The tiny state of Israel barely survived the 48 war and lost the oldest part of Jerusalem when the British armed and trained Jordanians attacked. To suggest that Isreal was a "winner" during WWII borders on obscene to me. Just an opinion.

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        • #34
          US- went from industrial powerhouse to hegemonic military super power and ended the war with a profit in gold, and soon followed it with a profit in manpower (baby boom).

          Japan- destruction of military caste and social revolution into an economic super power.

          Israel- reborn after nearly 2000 years.

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          • #35
            The third world was the profitier of the outcome. it would trigger events that changed the world more times in the 68 years after than in the previous 600 years.

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            • #36
              it was also americas downfall. a sort of beggining of the end scenario. Americas time to shine and police up the world and take on the other superpower in an overplayed struggle for humanity. at the end of our time we will look very much like we did before 1898 SP. AM. war. Things will get interesting EU, NAU (north american union) AA (asian alliance) africa will remain a killing field.

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              • #37
                Huh?!

                Begining of the end, for what? As a direct consequence of the war the USA gained strategic chokepoints at every corner of the planet that is of strategic worth except what the Russians had already claimed. Americans had since kept troops in Germany, Korea, the Pacific chain while England, Germany, Japan and France got knocked out of the hegemony game. How is that a loss? The American forces grew from being an army that was smaller than Poland's to the second largest and by far the finest in the world, with no naval power to contest its control of the international waters, and fifty years down the line still hold the title of the the world's premier superpower. Not a loser in my book.
                All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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                • #38
                  you are absolutely correct for your vision of the present....the future will hold a different story. i am very proud of what we have done and accomplished and what we are trying to do....this is just my opinion of what will happen

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by phillip View Post
                    From all I have read, I would have to say that the Russians should probably get a large part of the credit for winning WWll. Sure, we helped with supplies but they lost the men and more than blunted the German war machine. I'm not sure we could have won without the Russians.
                    "When the man with the rifle dies, the man without the rifle picks up the rifle and shoots."

                    I believe the previous standing position was the US was ready to mass produce 300 Mk3 nukes shortly after taking out Japan. With the US assets dedicated to Japan including the entire US Marine Corp and a rather significant portion of the Navy and Army freed up to dedicate to Germany, Germany would still have had serious issues. The US's primary front was the Pacific in many regards.

                    Russia on the other hand needed the logistical support to remain viable. The value of Studebakers and spam in can is not to be underestimated.


                    I would agree with Dalem though, the Japanese.

                    The Japanese listened when America's smartest taught them, while American industry did not and as a result they've flourished. They wouldn't have really gotten that if the US hadn't leveled and then being the responsible people they are decided to make a point to rebuild them.

                    The Russians had to continue to live under Soviet rule so they lost. Ditto Eastern Europe. The Western Europeans got the fact they were now just second rate powers rubbed in their noses, so they lost face. The damage the Germans had done to British trade and its treasury as a result of the U-boat had already paved the way for America to take its throne in WW1 so that was just beating a dead horse.

                    The Canadian's contribution were forgotten... again.
                    Last edited by FOG3; 28 Apr 08,, 02:48.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dark-alias View Post
                      you are absolutely correct for your vision of the present....the future will hold a different story. i am very proud of what we have done and accomplished and what we are trying to do....this is just my opinion of what will happen
                      Then you are certainly entitled to it. Maybe I am more pessimistic but I don't see of prosperity or power as ever-lasting. What your state or civilization do when it is still at the pinnacle of its powers is more important than if it will dodge the the inevitable decline, in which no one had ever succeeded.
                      All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                      -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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