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  • Kitty Hawk for India ?

    Kitty Hawk for India?

    Subrata on a bheelez cruise
    - On board with spare suit & Gariahat bag
    Trinamul leader and former Calcutta mayor Subrata Mukherjee was on board the USS Kitty Hawk on Friday and as soon as he took the first few steps down the flight deck and looked around him, he was struck with wonder. “Eta toh ekdom ekta bheelez’er moton, maaeeri (this is just like a village, Mother Mary).”

    The Kitty Hawk is much more than that and there is little in it to make one feel bucolic. It is the oldest aircraft carrier in the US fleet.

    Mukherjee was here on a “distinguished visitors’ programme”. The US consul in Calcutta was here, too. The Andamans fall in the Calcutta consulate’s area of responsibility.

    Now, back to Mukherjee. He said it was with great difficulty he found two days off from his busy schedule. He was worried a bit about the arrested landing or “trap” and the catapulted take-off “shot” but appeared to bear it well. He was carrying a spare suit, unsuitable for the tropics, in a “Traders’ Assembly, Gariahat” plastic bag.

    Kitty for India

    The Kitty Hawk is on its last deployment. It is due to be decommissioned next year, but the Malabar war games are not its last active operation. In February, it will participate in drills off Hawaii, headquarters of the US Pacific Command, before it heads for San Diego. In Hawaii, the crew and its on-board carrier, Air Wing, will move to the USS George Washington, a Nimitz-class nuclear propelled carrier that will replace the Kitty Hawk.

    The buzz is that the Kitty Hawk will be up for sale. Will India bid for it? There is a certain logic to this. The Superhornets are a competitive bidder for the IAF’s $10.2-billion multi-role combat aircraft order. The Kitty Hawk flight deck is crammed with them. If India were to take the Kitty Hawk and the Superhornets, it would gel just fine.


    The Telegraph - Calcutta : Nation

    Now, This? I guess it isnt the JFK..then..lol.... But is this part of the nuclear deal.
    Check this video out, where the US navy personnel vaguely hints that it may be sold.
    Mighty US warship retires after India mission: IBNLive.com > Videos

  • #2
    Is it as problematic and maintance intensive as JFK

    US and Indian relationships are building at a very fast pace.

    There are news reports Indian Navy, trying to build a third fleet other than the existing Western and Eastern Fleet, an Indian Ocean Fleet that might be based in Andaman Nicobar Islands.
    Last edited by Adux; 09 Sep 07,, 18:55.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Josh View Post
      Now, This? I guess it isnt the JFK..then..lol.... But is this part of the nuclear deal.
      Check this video out, where the US navy personnel vaguely hints that it may be sold.
      Mighty US warship retires after India mission: IBNLive.com > Videos
      It's just not going to happen guys. Kitty Hawk (and JFK for that matter) are too old and too manpower-intensive and just plain too much ship for the Indian Navy.

      They don't need a ex-USN supercarrier, they need to continue with their planned carriers.

      A few amphibs are one thing. A 46-year old behemoth requiring a crew of over 3,000 sailors simply to man the ship (never mind the air wing) is quite another.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Top Hatter,

        Forget the Ex-USN crafts for a minute.
        Dont you think IN is short of ships for its precieved role, and it lacks presence in the Indian Ocean, and it will hard-pressed for the USN and IN, when the Chinese start deploying in the Indian Ocean in the near future.
        Dont you think IN needs a new fleet for the Indian Ocean.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Josh View Post
          Top Hatter,

          Forget the Ex-USN crafts for a minute.
          Dont you think IN is short of ships for its precieved role, and it lacks presence in the Indian Ocean, and it will hard-pressed for the USN and IN, when the Chinese start deploying in the Indian Ocean in the near future.
          Dont you think IN needs a new fleet for the Indian Ocean.
          I'm not qualified to comment on the Indian Navy's ability to meet it's commitments so I can't answer your question with any degree of accuracy.

          At the same time, they're already a big navy (4th largest in the world) and they're continuing to get bigger, with nearly 40 ships under construction.

          Once their 2 new carriers Vikramaditya (2008) and Vikrant (2011-2012) are completed, the Indian Navy will take a quantum leap in capability.
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • #6
            How is the situation with Russian carriers in Indian service?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by entropy View Post
              How is the situation with Russian carriers in Indian service?
              Well, it still hasn't arrived... the other 2 were/are ex-British carriers...
              Last edited by Tronic; 10 Sep 07,, 00:44.
              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by entropy View Post
                How is the situation with Russian carriers in Indian service?
                The Indians have only one ex-Russian carrier, Admiral Gorshkov, now INS Vikramaditya,

                She's at Severodvinsk finishing up the conversion job to a STOBAR ski-jump carrier.

                Reports are conflicting, with some sources saying it's delayed indefinitely.

                According to the Russians, she's on time and will be handed over to the Indian Navy next year.

                Global Security.org has nice write-up on the conversion changes.

                Here's a few before and after shots


                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  According to globalsecurity.org, the Kitty Hawk costs $141 million a year to operate, and that might be in 1996 dollars.

                  CV 63 Kitty Hawk - Specifications

                  India has a defense budget of $19 billion in 2005.

                  World Wide Military Expenditures

                  Is it worth 1% of India's entire military spending to run the ship? I don't know. I would rather concentrate on newer and smaller carriers like the CVF to patrol the Indian Ocean. Get the 2 V carriers up and running first, then buy a new CVF to replace the older carrier around 2020. I'm sure the Brits will be happy to have a customer to help their declining ship building industry.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    he was struck with wonder. “Eta toh ekdom ekta bheelez’er moton, maaeeri (this is just like a village, Mother Mary)
                    Heh!"maaeeri" means OMG not Mother Mary.

                    How is the situation with Russian carriers in Indian service?
                    Gorshkov definitely delayed.It was due in 2008.Now it will be coming in 2011.IAC(Indigenous aircraft carrier)-1 delayed a bit(due to Russia jacking up the price of steel etc.),still its due date now is 2014-2015.After that the construction of IAC-2 will start.

                    So IN will operate the INS Viraat till 2014-15 atleast.Its SHars have been upgraded with EL/M-2032,Derby missiles,EL-L-8222 jammers,refuelling pods etc.

                    So this is the immediate plan of the IN.Indian navy's doctrinal plan has the requirement for 3 carriers..one for the Eastern fleet,one for the Western fleet and one carrier reserve.And say by 2020 there will be 2 IAC's and 1 Gorshkov operating.There are no plans for getting other carriers.

                    My personal opinion is that there should be at least 1 CATOBAR carrier.And the Kitty Hawk would be cool.But again only the US makes catapults.Foreign policy seems to be re-aligning itself.Who knows what future can bring.But at this moment there are no such plans.

                    IN has inducted the Trenton recently as the INS Jalashwa(Seahorse) and the US has offered the USS Nashville and E-2Hawkeyes recently.But the IN has politely declined both.

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                    • #11
                      I personally dont see why they would be interested in Kitty. Given the money and time it will take to make her their very own they would be better served building one from scratch and set the building "footprint" for the future of their own navy.

                      The USN has never been in the business of selling their retired capital ships (except to razor blades) no matter the age. Destroyers,tenders etc are one thing but the likes of a carrier would be like offering any of the Iowas for sale. I.E. They simply dont do it. Not now and certainly not in the future. The DOD themselves would never condone such a thing no matter how friendly the nation is.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                      • #12
                        I believe it doesnt make economic sense.
                        Why is that US is the only nation producing the catapult. isnt it a tech that was with many countries from the early 1950's

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          I personally dont see why they would be interested in Kitty. Given the money and time it will take to make her their very own they would be better served building one from scratch and set the building "footprint" for the future of their own navy.
                          I agree and it would have been better to have passed on the Gorshkov deal too.

                          I mean, a 30+ year old major combatant built and "maintained" by the Soviets?

                          No thank you very much.

                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          The USN has never been in the business of selling their retired capital ships (except to razor blades) no matter the age. Destroyers,tenders etc are one thing but the likes of a carrier would be like offering any of the Iowas for sale. I.E. They simply dont do it. Not now and certainly not in the future. The DOD themselves would never condone such a thing no matter how friendly the nation is.
                          Yeah, the closest is tiny CVE's and CL's.
                          Although, I was pretty impressed with the Kidd-class sale to Taiwan.
                          Still nowhere near a supercarrier though.
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Josh View Post
                            I believe it doesnt make economic sense.
                            Why is that US is the only nation producing the catapult. isnt it a tech that was with many countries from the early 1950's
                            Manufacturing a cat is a "perishable skill". Use it or lose it.

                            Only the US has used it consistently since the 1950's to today.

                            In other countries, it's a "vanished industrial base". That's why the U.S. has never stopped producing nuclear power submarines and supercarriers and why it cannot produce battleships anymore.

                            (That's also something you can point out to those feeble-minded fools that claim the U.S. never went to the moon in 1969 because "NASA admitted they can't duplicate that feat now" )

                            Besides, the catapult of today has to fling a 60,000 lb plane into the air.
                            The 1950's cat only had to handle probably half of that or so. Quite a bit of difference in scale. Only the US has kept pace with the ballooning size of naval aircraft.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                              Manufacturing a cat is a "perishable skill". Use it or lose it.

                              Only the US has used it consistently since the 1950's to today.

                              In other countries, it's a "vanished industrial base". That's why the U.S. has never stopped producing nuclear power submarines and supercarriers and why it cannot produce battleships anymore.

                              (That's also something you can point out to those feeble-minded fools that claim the U.S. never went to the moon in 1969 because "NASA admitted they can't duplicate that feat now" )

                              Besides, the catapult of today has to fling a 60,000 lb plane into the air.
                              The 1950's cat only had to handle probably half of that or so. Quite a bit of difference in scale. Only the US has kept pace with the ballooning size of naval aircraft.
                              We will/have used magnetics now a days baby!
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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