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Thread: 1941 - Annihilated

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    1941 - Annihilated

    I just read an article, in a Russian newspaper, that talks about the defeat of the Red Army in 1941. While the whole article is very long, and difficult to translate, I'm going to quote a few numbers from it. It really made me start thinking.

    Soviet casualty figures in 1941:
    8 500 000 men out of which
    567 000 died on the field of battle or in hospitals
    235 000 from disease and other accidental occurences
    3 800 000 prisoners
    1 000 000 - 1 500 000 deserters
    1 000 000 injured lost during the retreat, lost in the chaos, unaccounted for

    Another one. South-Western front in the early war: lost 4000 tanks in 2 weeks. The German tank group (von Kleist) up against them lost 186 tanks.
    However the total number of broken down or lots trucks in the Red Army is about 10%. The total number of rifles and other firearms lost over 6 months of 1941 is 6 300 000. While combat losses of fire arms were about 35 000 - 40 000 a month.

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    FreeGeneral Senior Contributor Big K's Avatar
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    are these figures some kind of world record??
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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    yes, but so is the Red Army's recovery.

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    The germans thought they were beaten. Had they begun Barbarossa on time, perhaps they would have been. (NEWS FLASH - GERMAN FATE SEALED BY ITALIAN INEPTITUDE - NEWS AT 11 :P )

    Here is a question. Had USSR collapsed as germany expected by, say, Sept 41, would the US have joined the war in Europe?

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    Yes, FDR was committed to war, and the US had been in a de facto shooting war with Germany since July 41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarven Pirate View Post
    Here is a question. Had USSR collapsed as germany expected by, say, Sept 41, would the US have joined the war in Europe?
    Would've been irrelevant, even if the USSR had collapsed, Hitler would have still lost to Russian resistance fighters. Except instead of communist resistance fighters, they'd have been Russian nationalists. The problem still stands. No winter uniforms = no easy occupation. No anti-freeze = no tanks october - april. What got me thinking is the low number of combat deaths and large number of prisoners/deserters. Was this the result of loss of effective coordination by the high command? (field phone lines cut by german diversants and advancing troops) Or was it the result of inherent low morale?

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    Alot of us at WAB are convinced that hat Hitler won against Stalin, Hitler would've lost WWII alot earlier. Stalin would've turned his attention to the East and kill the Japanese in China and Korea which would've relieved US Pacific forces to concentrate on Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Alot of us at WAB are convinced that hat Hitler won against Stalin, Hitler would've lost WWII alot earlier. Stalin would've turned his attention to the East and kill the Japanese in China and Korea which would've relieved US Pacific forces to concentrate on Europe.

    That's an interesting take on things considering US forces in the pacific were minuscule compared to Soviet forces on the eastern front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Alot of us at WAB are convinced that hat Hitler won against Stalin, Hitler would've lost WWII alot earlier. Stalin would've turned his attention to the East and kill the Japanese in China and Korea which would've relieved US Pacific forces to concentrate on Europe.
    An opinion based on modeling of such a scenario using 'realistic' models such as the board games "Risk" and "Axis & Allies" no doubt.

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    Take a 24 hour vacation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
    That's an interesting take on things considering US forces in the pacific were minuscule compared to Soviet forces on the eastern front.
    It would've meant the U-Boat threat would be gone instantly.

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    By early '43 the u-boat threat was pretty small anyway.
    Definately not big enough to make much of an impact on the transport of troops and supplies to Britain.

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    M21Sniper had already detailed out what was available on WAB somewhere. I'll find those posts.

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    Galactic Citizen Military Professional Skull6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Soviet casualty figures in 1941:
    8 500 000 men out of which
    567 000 died on the field of battle or in hospitals
    235 000 from disease and other accidental occurences
    3 800 000 prisoners
    1 000 000 - 1 500 000 deserters

    1 000 000 injured lost during the retreat, lost in the chaos, unaccounted for
    I'm confused as to why these lines boldened above would be considered "casualties." "Losses" or "removed from combat" would seem more the case, in my opinion.
    If you know the enemy and yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    M21Sniper had already detailed out what was available on WAB somewhere. I'll find those posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Account View Post
    "Sniper is confusing two battles, Savo Island-1942 and Leyte Gulf-1944."

    Yup. Whoops.

    More of a student of the ETO in WWII....
    Well, since "Account" (formerly known as sniper) didn't know jack about the ETO in WWII, and he admits here that he knows even less about the PTO, I'm not sure how much credibility can be assigned to whatever 'details' he may have posted previously on the topic.

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