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  • Originally posted by dilawar View Post
    Archer, i could'nt have phrased it better than you have. The communists in the East have effectively created a votebank through muslim settlers. The demographics is fast changing in the entire NE and border areas of Bengal. This will inevitably lead to some sort of backlash from right wing Hindu forces in the future. Secularists like me will have no choice but to support some of these forces that try to undo the damage. It does'nt make me communal, but it hurts me to support something thats a reaction to what should not have occurred in the first place.
    Two states in the entire of India of the entire 28, is ruled by the communist. And yet they are the root cause of all problems of India.Seriously what are you smoking.

    I see, You are forced to be a communal..lol.
    I see nothing wrong in you accepting that you are not a secular. Simply, You are not one anyway.
    BSF is central government force. Borders are to be closed by the Central government. Why Blame the communist?

    India is a mess, and the communist are least at fault. They have never had the center anyways. Stupid blame game.
    We have a long way to go, tough decisions to make. And supporting Communal forces, communist, backless congress is not the answer, but alas we have no other option do we.
    Last edited by Adux; 06 Nov 07,, 15:15.

    Comment


    • Well at least other parties have theirn own interests at first rather than have some other country's interests at first which I can't say for the communists.

      Yes I do blame the communists for a lot of problems such as the insurgency in the Northeast and the Maoist problem. I also blame the Communists for the illegal immigrants from Bangledesh and giving them such a large vote bank illegally that now we can't do very much do anything about it but watch helplessly change the demographics that will cause a lot more problems in the long run.

      But that's not what makes me despise the communists. It is the communists destroying our history, our cultural fabric, their denigrations of our culture that pisses me off the most.

      In the claim of being secularist, the commies and its socialist ilks have caused the most communal problems that India today is facing.

      Adux, your true colors are showing.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
        Well at least other parties have theirn own interests at first rather than have some other country's interests at first which I can't say for the communists.
        Couldnt agree with you more. For them idealogy is more important than the nation itself.

        Yes I do blame the communists for a lot of problems such as the insurgency in the Northeast
        Its more of a christian insurgency, Heck most Indians call people of the North east "*****i" "gnadi" etc. And you wonder why they are revolting. India has had very step-motherly attitude towards the people of the north-east. Thankfully development has started now in those parts.

        and the Maoist problem.
        Agree with you.



        I also blame the Communists for the illegal immigrants from Bangledesh and giving them such a large vote bank illegally that now we can't do very much do anything about it but watch helplessly change the demographics that will cause a lot more problems in the long run.
        Blame all the parties for that except the BJP.
        And Oh, securing the border and fencing, is the central government job. The communist never had any sort influence on that front, till the UPA government. Deporting the Bangladeshi's is not some easy task(illegals in the US, it has a lot of variables)

        But that's not what makes me despise the communists. It is the communists destroying our history, our cultural fabric, their denigrations of our culture that pisses me off the most.
        I dont know how you came to that conclusion, Every political entity in India has done something or the other. They havent changed my history as far as I know. But they are trying now here. They are trying to stop the spread of CBSE schools and development, cuz kids from CBSE and rich people are not their votebank.

        But then again, My apperciation for them, is in stopping the castism evil in Kerala nothing else.

        In the claim of being secularist, the commies and its socialist ilks have caused the most communal problems that India today is facing.
        No they havent, i rather have a socialist than some banjrangi or PDP nut.

        West Bengal not Kerala, the church, SNDP, Communist, Congress etc are very powerful here. No single government in this state has had two consequtive terms.


        Adux, your true colors are showing
        Should I be saying "you" are showing your true colours. But then I dont know you.

        You should ask BULL, we have met in "real" life, he knows my family and political lineages. He would be able to confirm my "real" colours. If you dont even have the capacity to accept the "good" done by your rival, then seriously it is a sad fact of your character.
        Last edited by Adux; 06 Nov 07,, 15:16.

        Comment


        • I don't see here what one is arguing about? BJP, RSS, Bajrangi and the like are just as sectarianist and divisional as the Commies, and vice versa; how can one even continue arguing, claiming the moral ground, and at the same time supporting either of the two sides! They are both divisional, they just divide the country along different lines.
          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Adux View Post
            That was pre-independence. And your point is. There was no India then, Britisher was as foriegn as a person from Gwalior.

            And pLease read how Muslim's spread in South India, Kerala to be precise. They might have used the sword in north, but that is not the case. There have been riots here, but compared to any other state in India, especially in this state, wher you have 25% Christains, 25% Muslims and 50% Hindu's, that is something to be proud off.

            Its not their fault that higher caste hindu's forced Lower caste to conversion to christains and muslims. Racisim is an accepted norm in India, Fairness cream ad anyone!!!!
            But then again what does a "madrassi" or "kallu" south Indian know. I have had enough experience in my 26 years, to pass quite few character judgements.
            So, you believe that India was created by the British. There is no Indian civilization which holds all of us togather. Then I am afraid I do not agree with you and can never do that.

            I don't care how Islam spread in Kerala. The mopalah massacre proved for me once and for all where the loyalty of these people lay and that they can murder their compatriots for their so called religion when the murdered people had no involvement in the issue. So whatever their apologists may say, I don't give a hoot.

            The second part of your quote is too judgemental without trying to understand the complex undercurrents. The fact is that Hinduism has moved on and changed a lot in practice but absolutist ideologies like communism and Islam have refused to move with the times.
            There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=WhamBam;423775]
              So, you believe that India was created by the British. There is no Indian civilization which holds all of us togather. Then I am afraid I do not agree with you and can never do that
              .

              Is that what you deciphered out of that post. And yes there is an Indian Civilization and no Indian nation before the British, but thats not what binds us together. It is the idea of India.


              I don't care how Islam spread in Kerala. The mopalah massacre proved for me once and for all where the loyalty of these people lay and that they can murder their compatriots for their so called religion when the murdered people had no involvement in the issue. So whatever their apologists may say, I don't give a hoot
              .

              Fine,
              lower caste Hindu's perscuted by castism pre-independence, So the upper caste Hindu's are never going to accept the sheer madness of castism, do you think that is what is happening now. So I guess I must pass judgements on Uppercaste Hindus of today by their forefathers...really!!!


              Does the standard apply both ways for you?

              The second part of your quote is too judgemental without trying to understand the complex undercurrents. The fact is that Hinduism has moved on and changed a lot in practice but absolutist ideologies like communism and Islam have refused to move with the times.
              When did I ever deny that.
              Hindu's or I should say rather Indians are far from embracing true meaning of secualrism and personal freedom. Perscution in Hindu's is Intra not Inter.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Adux View Post
                Ofcourse Yes, There are others too; It was the biggest in the state's history with 9 people dead.
                Can you tell us more about the incident? How did the killings happen? How many muslims died?who killed whom?

                was it a usual communal violence or a planned operation neatly executed? How long did it take to slaughter the 9 mentioned above?

                What happened to the guilty? Did the state govt hunt the guilty down like dogs and hang them?
                Last edited by FullTank; 06 Nov 07,, 18:10.
                God is a cruise missile.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Adux View Post

                  When did I ever deny that.
                  Hindu's or I should say rather Indians are far from embracing true meaning of secualrism and personal freedom. Perscution in Hindu's is Intra not Inter.
                  And you think the commies embrace the true meaning of secularism and personal freedom.

                  UTTER BULLSH!T!!!! Commies want nothing more but sheep so they can have their own personal power and will go to any length to keep that power as events have proved.
                  Last edited by Blademaster; 06 Nov 07,, 18:28.

                  Comment


                  • 'Arab Pardha' smothers India
                    http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnis...writer=kanchan

                    Every time I visit Kerala, which I have been doing quite frequently these past two-and-a-half-years, I am struck by the rapid Islamisation of 'God's Own Country'. The rain-gorged verdant plains and hills along the lush Malabar coast are fast turning into the billious green of radical Islam. Roadside brick-and-mortar glass-fronted shrines dedicated to Virgin Mary with flickering candles lit by the devout and ancient temples with amazing hand-crafted brassware and bell metal utensils that once celebrated the Hinduness of Kerala are overshadowed by spanking new mosques that seem to be mushrooming all over the place. Not only are they built with Arab money -- donations by Muslim Malayalees working in Gulf countries, especially Saudi Arabia, add up to only a fraction of the cost -- but they also symbolise the increasing influence of Arab 'culture', which is largely about visible manifestations of Islam and Islamism, that threatens to stamp out Kerala's rich indigenous culture rooted in India's civilisational past.

                    Huge billboards, advertising 'Arab Pardha' in English and Arabic, now jostle for space along with those advertising jewellery, new apartment blocks and investment schemes. The 'Arab Pardha' billboards are illustrated with larger than life images of women clad in head-to-toe burqas: They look shapeless and formless, their identity smothered by black fabric and their eyes barely visible through slits. "Arab Pardha", declares one billboard, "All pious women should wear it". The copywriter has it all wrong; it should have read, "All pious women should disappear behind it." For, that's what the burqa is meant for -- to make women disappear, make them invisible, deny them the right to exist as individuals. Any argument to the contrary is spurious and any religious edict cited in support of this grotesque suppression of individual liberty is specious. But there is a larger purpose behind propagating the 'Arab Pardha', or purdah, which is insidious and frightening for those who value freedom. This is one of the many instruments adopted by Islamists to push their agenda of radicalising Muslims and imposing their worldview on others without so much as even a token resistance by either civil society or the state. The darkness of the world in which they live is now being forced on us. Decades ago Nirad C Chaudhuri was to record in his memorable essay, The Continent of Circe, "Whenever in the streets of Delhi I see a Muslim woman in a burqa, the Islamic veil, I apostrophise her mentally: 'Sister! you are the symbol of your community in India.' The entire body of Muslims are under a black veil." The Continent of Circe was first published in 1966; forty-one years later, the community wants the black veil, the 'Arab Pardha', to envelope 'secular' India.

                    Kerala's 'Arab Pardha' billboards are a taunting reminder that in 'secular' India we must remain mute witness to the communalisation of culture, politics and society by peddlers of Islamism and its offensive agenda that is rooted in the most obnoxious interpretation of what Mohammed preached millennia ago. Even the economy has not been spared: Islamic banking, Islamic investments and Islamic financial instruments have surreptitiously entered this country under the benign gaze of an indulgent UPA Government whose Prime Minister spends sleepless nights agonising over the plight of Islamic terrorists and demands that all Government initiatives must be anchored in his perverse 'Muslims first' policy. The Prime Minister's admirers claim he is a "sensitive person" who is easily moved by the "plight of the helpless". Had he been moved by the pathetic sight of a Muslim woman, as much an Indian as all of us, forced to wear an 'Arab Pardha', his claimed sensitivities would have carried conviction. But such expression of sympathy, if not resolve to combat the insidious gameplan of Islamists inspired by hate-mongers and preachers of intolerance who draw their sustenance from the fruit of the poison tree of Wahaabism that flourishes in the sterile sands of Arabia, would demand a great degree of intellectual integrity and moral courage. The Prime Minister may be an "accidental politician", but he is a practitioner of politics of cynicism. For that, you neither need intellectual integrity nor moral courage.

                    Every time there is criticism of the Islamic veil, which comes in various forms of indignity -- the hijab, the niqab, the burqa, the chador -- whether from within or outside the Muslim community, we hear the frayed argument: It's a matter of personal choice; it's an expression of religiosity; it's culture-specific; it's a minority community's right, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. All that and more is balderdash, not least because there is no Quranic injunction that mandates a Muslim woman to wear an 'Islamic' veil. Just as there is nothing Quranic about the cruel and mind-numbing practice of female circumcision which is carried out in the name of Islam and to force women to be pious and faithful! Given the nature of the community's social hierarchy and the grip of the mullahs, rarely does a woman protest, leave alone rebel. Those who do, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somalian activist whose book The Caged Virgin provides a revealing insight into Islamism's warped religio-political ideology, are hounded and live in perpetual fear of losing their lives. Blasphemy is not tolerated by those who live in a world darker than the darkest burqa, a world in which even Barbie wears the Islamic veil lest her plastic modesty be compromised.

                    But this is not only about the denial of an individual's liberty, nor is it about the suppression of human rights in the name of faith. It is about the in-your-face declaration of Islamists that they can have their way without so much as lifting their little finger. It is a laughable sight to watch Malayalees trying to navigate crowded streets in Kochi wearing white Arab gelabayas, the loose kaftan like dress that along with the kafeyah has become a symbol of trans-national radical Islam, their 'Arab Pardha' clad wives and daughters in tow. But it is not a laughable matter.

                    Increasingly, we are witnessing a shifting of loyalties from Malabar to Manipur. Faith in India is being transplanted by belief in Arabia. This is not good news for those who believe in the Indian nation.
                    I rant, therefore I am.

                    Comment


                    • who killed whom?
                      Take a wild guess.. ;)
                      I rant, therefore I am.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adux View Post
                        lower caste Hindu's perscuted by castism pre-independence, So the upper caste Hindu's are never going to accept the sheer madness of castism, do you think that is what is happening now. So I guess I must pass judgements on Uppercaste Hindus of today by their forefathers...really!!!

                        Our family is from the upper caste and we don't persecute the lower caste. And now you are accusing us of persecuting low caste hindus in which we have never done? In fact, our family has donated large quantities of money in helping out the poor and we don't discriminate on the basis of caste. Do you want to tell that in my face and my family's face that we are persecuting the lower castes?

                        This is the game that your communist ilk likes to play, stoking the fear among the "lower caste" hindus and inciting them against the "upper caste" hindus raising non existent, fabricated imaginative threats and then coming across as the savior of "lower caste" hindus from the non existent threats from the "upper caste" hindus.

                        By the way, those some of "lower caste" hindus are not lower caste by any stretch of imagination but likes to be labeled as "lower caste" because they get benefits that people labeled as "upper caste" don't get. Not only that, they also get political power that they would not be able to get if they didn't get the label as "lower caste". Does not all of this tell you that this is communal activities?

                        It seems that in the course of being brainwashed by the commies, they have taken away your ability to think and have common sense so you will blindly accept whatever feces they serve from their asses.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Archer View Post
                          Godless communists and their support of any and every illegal migration into WB.
                          That is because the communists know that the muslims are anti-US. Communists are anti-US. It is a guaranteed vote bank. Unlike the non-communist hindus who are generally seen as pro-US.

                          What better way to convert India to anti-US?

                          US defeated the communists and today the muslims are anti-US. What better than the two(muslims and communists) team together.


                          Adux points has defintely merits regarding castism and even I dont think the hindu society has done enough to eradicate castism. Neither is there a clear picture there on how too. There are no hindu reformers currently.Thus the Intra problem is far more important to the hindu society than the inter problem.


                          But Adux expects secularism only from one side(a side which is already largely secular-perhaps much more than the other two larger religions- Let him deny it). He fails to understand that you need both parties to be secular. One side cannot be secular while the other side doesnt believe in any such niceties. Why is it that always the non-muslim community has to be accomodating but no enthusiasm from the muslim community.Let him put together a list of things one expects a secular person to say and do(his own version) and then go around and get 10 muslims from his hometown to say it.


                          Finally Adux himself is a great example of his community. He goes all out to defend what is right irrespective of whether it is against his own religion, maybe even offending people from his own religion. He is also plainly aggressive about it and doesnt feel intimidated whatsoever to opine.

                          Even in this board have we seen any single muslim being so agressive against his brethren regarding issues about his religion? Other than excuses and how the quiet ones are dominated, people dont know the religion enough and issues about palestine there is absolutely nothing wrong in islam. Leave the less well educated ones teeming in world today. That explains the difference and why I said that one person cannot handshake.

                          For this world to be truly secular every community must understand that to expect others to be accomodating of you, you yourself must first accomodate others with respect.

                          If you do not learn and when others respond in reaction do not cry about how others are equally intolerant as you are.
                          Last edited by FullTank; 06 Nov 07,, 18:45.
                          God is a cruise missile.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                            And you think the commies embrace the true meaning of secularism and personal freedom.

                            UTTER BULLSH!T!!!! Commies want nothing more but sheep so they can have their own personal power and will go to any length to keep that power as events have proved.
                            And again, You go on in the diatribe without even understanding my point of contention. ALL I said is, Communist in Kerala helped abolish the caste system from the minds of the society to a great extent. And thats all I have said.

                            Read the posts again. Come back with something, and Oh I do think they will sell India for china.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by FullTank View Post
                              That is because the communists know that the muslims are anti-US. Communists are anti-US. It is a guaranteed vote bank. Unlike the non-communist hindus who are generally seen as pro-US.

                              What better way to convert India to anti-US?

                              US defeated the communists and today the muslims are anti-US. What better than the two(muslims and communists) team together.


                              Adux points has defintely merits regarding castism and even I dont think the hindu society has done enough to eradicate castism. Neither is there a clear picture there on how too. There are no hindu reformers currently.Thus the Intra problem is far more important to the hindu society than the inter problem.


                              But Adux expects secularism only from one side(a side which is already largely secular-perhaps much more than the other two larger religions- Let him deny it). He fails to understand that you need both parties to be secular. One side cannot be secular while the other side doesnt believe in any such niceties. Why is it that always the non-muslim community has to be accomodating but no enthusiasm from the muslim community.Let him put together a list of things one expects a secular person to say and do(his own version) and then go around and get 10 muslims from his hometown to say it.


                              Finally Adux himself is a great example of his community. He goes all out to defend what is right irrespective of whether it is against his own religion, maybe even offending people from his own religion. He is also plainly aggressive about it and doesnt feel intimidated whatsoever to opine.

                              Even in this board have we seen any single muslim being so agressive against his brethren regarding issues about his religion? Other than excuses and how the quiet ones are dominated, people dont know the religion enough and issues about palestine there is absolutely nothing wrong in islam. Leave the less well educated ones teeming in world today. That explains the difference and why I said that one person cannot handshake.

                              For this world to be truly secular every community must understand that to expect others to be accomodating of you, you yourself must first accomodate others with respect.

                              If you do not learn and when others respond in reaction do not cry about how others are equally intolerant as you are.

                              An excellent post.
                              Why not, Lets be like the Islamic Crazy nutjobs. Kill all the mofo's.
                              How old are you, India is not that black and white?
                              You think I am Anti-US, laughable, check my rep at defence.pk, but I am banned?
                              I am commie, if you say so.
                              You think I am against WoT, you dont know me yet!!!
                              Blow up Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, please.


                              I was just pointed out our problems, which doesnt mean I am writing a khali cheque to anybody else. But then again.
                              Let all call the North-eastersn *****i, Muslims mofo's, South Indians "kalu's, perscute a little more dalits, carry reservations for time continum.
                              And there goes the Idea of India, are we different that our favorite neighbour.
                              I have always noticed why we dont talk about the "idea of India", That is more important than Gandhi, indic civilization or anything. If we no-longer have those ideas, then we are no longer India. That doesnt mean appeasement, and that doesnt mean giving clean chit to the Bajrangi's.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                                Our family is from the upper caste and we don't persecute the lower caste. And now you are accusing us of persecuting low caste hindus in which we have never done? In fact, our family has donated large quantities of money in helping out the poor and we don't discriminate on the basis of caste. Do you want to tell that in my face and my family's face that we are persecuting the lower castes?

                                This is the game that your communist ilk likes to play, stoking the fear among the "lower caste" hindus and inciting them against the "upper caste" hindus raising non existent, fabricated imaginative threats and then coming across as the savior of "lower caste" hindus from the non existent threats from the "upper caste" hindus.

                                By the way, those some of "lower caste" hindus are not lower caste by any stretch of imagination but likes to be labeled as "lower caste" because they get benefits that people labeled as "upper caste" don't get. Not only that, they also get political power that they would not be able to get if they didn't get the label as "lower caste". Does not all of this tell you that this is communal activities?

                                It seems that in the course of being brainwashed by the commies, they have taken away your ability to think and have common sense so you will blindly accept whatever feces they serve from their asses.

                                You are ever so ready to blanket all other people together in your choice of groups, but it hurts when you are grouped with Upper caste opperssors.
                                Double Standards my friend.

                                I am happy that you and your family did.

                                You have no Idea what my intellectual capacity or understanding of the matter at hand is. Do you have the faintest idea of how much the upper caste hindu's have perscuted lower caste for centuries. I have family members who have been perscuted for her lower caste lineage. She doesnt have an arm, But your family dont discriminate, so that means other upper caste also dont do it.
                                Equality strikes doesnt it my friend, Centuries of persecutions and Equality at last.
                                I personally dont think reservations are a right choice. I am an OBC and I dont think OBC should be given Reservations. While SC/ST definitly should.

                                But how that be right einstien. How can the person support as well as oppose Reservation...sheesh.

                                Comment

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