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  • #16
    Originally posted by maqsad View Post
    Though the exact number of missing soldiers was yet to be confirmed, security officials put the number at 156.

    However, tribal sources claimed that the number of security personnel held hostage was about 205, including 105 regular troops and 100 personnel of the Frontier Corps. A colonel, three majors and some captains were among the personnel seized by militants.
    This is the part that looks suspicious to me. This isn't a small patrol that accidentally got lost and surrounded by superior numbers. This is a fairly large group of guys + they have commanding officers with them as well. I think these guys simply defected en-masse.

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    • #17
      I agree with you.

      Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by indus creed View Post
        Remember the test run during Kargil?

        Dead Pak soldiers dressed as jihadis?

        Their bodies remained unclaimed by the country they gave their lives for?

        Now its the same sh!t done in the reverse.

        Famous joke:

        Vajpayee to Musharraf during Parakram: Hand over the terrorists, or we invade
        Musharraf: I have 375000 men in my army, 110000 in the AF and 35000 in the Navy, plus another 200000 as paramilitary, I have so many tanks, planes, missiles etc etc

        Vajpayee talks to COAS Indian Army: Mutter, mutter, mutter..
        Comes back:

        Ok, Musharraf- we wont invade.

        Musharraf: Aha!! Why??

        Vajpayee: Theres no way in heck that we can feed half a million prisoners!
        Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu

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        • #19
          good one

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MarquezRazor View Post
            I dont know about the Pakistani Army(ok,maybe some ),but in the Indian army I know,the officers always lead from the front...Captains,majors,Lt.Cols and even Cols.
            I really don't know anything about military formations and rankings. If the officers are fighting eye to eye with the enemy in combat then their fingers should not be broken. What I meant to imply was that the comfortably seated strategist who is responsible for training, equipping and planning for his underlings should never be allowed to get away scott free when someone under him dies. The way I look at it is if a footsoldier can lose a limb or his life then those above him should not be insulated from the physical pain and trauma he goes through, its as simple as that.

            Also its very obvious that the armchair soldiers who are responsible for Waziristan deployment did not do enough when they could have and should have. In this case they should have had the whole area under aerial surveillance well before the troops headed out. I read somewhere that Mehsud is supposed to have 30,000 trained men working under him. Thousands of them could have been waiting at certain strategic spots, aereal surveillance would have caught movements well in advance of the 300 troops arriving and backup could have been summoned, land and air based. Or they could have just not moved. Obviously no UAVs were scoping the area out, so the person responsible for UAVs doing that should have been under the threat of his finger being ceremoniously broken.

            Originally posted by MarquezRazor View Post
            Thats why in any war(eg.Kargil,ongoing COIN ops)there is always a lot of casualties among the officer cadre and the IA is always short of officers.
            I have no idea as to what place officers have in the PA but as I said before if they are fighting in the field then depending on how a casualty occurs and who is ultimately responsible, most likely they should not be punished for a strategic or planning blunder.

            Originally posted by MarquezRazor View Post
            As for playing golf as somebody(okay, Ray sir;)) once said,"you dont expect a 55 year old to play rugby do you?"
            I would expect a 55 year old to still have his wits about him. Perhaps there are too many senile or semi senile personnel in positions of responsibility in the PA? If that is the case then they are only there because they do not pay a heavy price in case of screwups. The mentally feeble should move out of the way and grab positions with less responsibility and the brave and alert ones should hold on to the reigns of power. Harsh physical disciplinary punishment such as finger cracking and 20 to 50 floggings in public(to add the humiliation factor in as well) per screwup would fix things very quickly. The old boy network and the disgusting, sloppy nepotism associated with it needs to be flushed out and barbaric physical punishment is a very simple and effective way to accomplish that.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by arment View Post
              This is the part that looks suspicious to me. This isn't a small patrol that accidentally got lost and surrounded by superior numbers. This is a fairly large group of guys + they have commanding officers with them as well. I think these guys simply defected en-masse.
              Another suspicious fact surrounding this mysterious, bloodless surrender is how they lost radio contact with their base without reporting any obstruction ahead on the road. You don't just lose radio contact unless someone jams your frequency minutes before ambushing your communications vehicles and confiscating all radio transmitters. Most likely the PA lied about this, concealing the fact that the convoy sent out an SOS before having their radio link snuffed out. Its also possible, but unlikely that they were ambushed so professionally with lightning strikes and jamming signals that they never got a chance to communicate.

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              • #22
                200?????????? isnt it a lot???
                Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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                • #23
                  It has actually now been revised up to more than 300.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by maqsad View Post
                    It has actually now been revised up to more than 300.

                    You sure? Wow..the whole deal stinks..

                    Yesterday i read that gov. released 100 tribal prisoners. Any further developments?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kams View Post
                      You sure? Wow..the whole deal stinks..

                      Yesterday i read that gov. released 100 tribal prisoners. Any further developments?
                      All I read was that the soldiers are safe and the reason they were picked up was because they were roaming around in the Mehsud agency in violation of a treaty the pakistani govt signed with the locals. The Mehsuds want the PA to ink an agreement that they will not set foot in the agency again(since it does not border afghanistan) without pre approval. And they also want some captives released, many more than 100 and probably a few that GoP does not want to release.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by maqsad View Post
                        Another suspicious fact surrounding this mysterious, bloodless surrender is how they lost radio contact with their base without reporting any obstruction ahead on the road. You don't just lose radio contact unless someone jams your frequency minutes before ambushing your communications vehicles and confiscating all radio transmitters. Most likely the PA lied about this, concealing the fact that the convoy sent out an SOS before having their radio link snuffed out. Its also possible, but unlikely that they were ambushed so professionally with lightning strikes and jamming signals that they never got a chance to communicate.
                        I don't know the exact terrain that they were "taken" in, but I do know that mountainous terrain can (& does) disrupt line-of-sight radio communications. & good enemy strategists will take advantage of such a position, for this very reason.

                        But the number disparity, & the Pakistani force's "surrender" still doesn't make sense. "Defection" certainly would, though. But I haven't read anything that would resemble a proper reaction to such a defection yet. IMO, you just don't let such a force "defect" without some sort of military response--unless you have so little hold on your military that you just can't make such a reaction come about.

                        Of course, if the unit made such a military blunder as to bring further discredit upon their Nation's government, I could see that government trying to keep the fact that such a situation occured as "non-recognized" as possible.
                        Last edited by Skull6; 05 Sep 07,, 22:48.
                        If you know the enemy and yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by maqsad View Post
                          Another suspicious fact surrounding this mysterious, bloodless surrender is how they lost radio contact with their base without reporting any obstruction ahead on the road. You don't just lose radio contact unless someone jams your frequency minutes before ambushing your communications vehicles and confiscating all radio transmitters.
                          You'll be surprised what mountains can do to radio VHF frequencies (HF is a different thing), and most of the standard infantry units use VHF. So there is nothing sinister about loosing radio contact.

                          Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                          • #28
                            What happened to the glorious Martial Race of Pakistan we inferior Hindus feared for so long!?
                            I rant, therefore I am.

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                            • #29
                              Do you think that they defected?


                              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                              HAKUNA MATATA

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                              • #30
                                Sir, I can't think of any other reason that explains the peaceful surrender by Armed soldiers serving a national army.

                                PS: 21,000+ posts.. OMG!!! :o
                                I rant, therefore I am.

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