Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is Iraq Another Vietnam? Actually, It May Become Worse

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is Iraq Another Vietnam? Actually, It May Become Worse

    Is Iraq Another Vietnam? Actually, It May Become Worse
    by Robert Freeman


    A virtual cottage industry has sprung up comparing Iraq with Vietnam. And well that it should. Vietnam cost the lives of not only 58,000 Americans but of three million Vietnamese. Neither the US nor the Iraqi people nor the world need another such horror.

    The similarities between Iraq and Vietnam run both shallow and deep. The shallow similarities are obvious and can serve to signal our attention. But it is the deeper similarities, those that shape policy and drive alternatives, that should signal our fears. For they point to the possibility of an outcome perhaps even more calamitous than in Vietnam.

    Both Iraq and Vietnam were founded on lies. In Vietnam, the original lie was that an impoverished nation of pre-industrial age farmers posed a threat to the mightiest empire the world had ever known. The Gulf of Tonkin hoax was the manufactured excuse to jump in with all guns blazing. And the Pentagon Papers were the meticulous, irrefutable chronicle of the litany of all the rest of the lies.

    With Iraq, we don’t need to wait for a Pentagon Papers to know the trigger or the extent of the lying. It is already notorious. Weapons of Mass Destruction. Connections to Al Qaeda. Complicity in 9/11. A “cakewalk”. Being welcomed as “liberators”. A “self-funding” war. “We’ve found the weapons of mass destruction.” Reducing global terror. Mission Accomplished. The real question in Iraq is not whether the Bush administration has told any lies but rather, almost literally, whether it has told any meaningful truths.

    Both wars quickly became guerilla wars. In Vietnam, the battlegrounds were jungles, rice paddies, and small rural hamlets. It was the antithesis of the set-piece battle style of warfare the U.S. military had been built and trained for. In Iraq the battlegrounds are city blocks with houses, apartments, stores and schools. In both settings, the enemy controls the timing, scale, and place of engagements.

    They shoot opportunistically and quickly melt away into their surroundings. Combatants are indistinguishable from civilians with the result that eight civilians are killed for every combatant. This understandably alienates the civilian population from its “liberators” while increasing its support for the resistance—an inescapable and fateful cycle. In Vietnam, this process became mockingly known as “winning the hearts and minds of the people.” It hasn’t been graced with a name yet in Iraq.

    Both wars used the palpable fiction of “democracy” to pacify the American public into quiescence. In Vietnam, “democracy” took the form of a clique of wealthy, urban, Catholic dictators running a country of poor, rural, Buddhist peasants. After the US had its puppet, Diem, assassinated in 1963, it took two years and seven different governments before a suitably brutal but still obeisant figurehead could be found.

    In Iraq, a “governing council” of US-appointed stooges pretends to represent Iraqi interests by handing over almost all industries to large U.S. corporations—all of which just happen to be munificent donors to the Republican party. Commenting recently on the handover of “sovereignty,” US proconsul Paul Bremmer noted in seemingly oblivious irony that, “There’s not going to be any difference in our military posture on July 1st from what it is on June 30th.” This is democracy™ for foreign subjects, American style.

    But there are still deeper bases for comparing Iraq with Vietnam. It is these that are most disquieting for America’s prospects.

    Both wars were against victim nations already deeply scarred by colonial domination. It is this legacy that poisons all U.S. sanctimony about installing “democracy” in Iraq. Vietnam was dominated for over a century by first the French, then the Japanese, then the French again, and eventually the Americans. But all the Vietnamese people ever wanted was to be free of such domination, to craft for themselves their own destiny, much as the American colonists had done in their revolutionary war.

    Iraq, too, bears the scars of a long and repressive colonial legacy. It was created in the aftermath of World War I, literally carved out of the sand by the British for the sole purpose of controlling the world’s oil supply. The US helped Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath party overthrow the uppity Karim Qasim in 1963 but its purposes were the same as the British’s: to control the world’s supply of oil. The aggressively disinformed American public is unaware of this legacy and, therefore, the reason behind Iraq’s vociferous resistance to its would-be “liberation.”

    Still deeper in meaning is the strategic context of the two wars. Both wars were fought in the vanguard of grand U.S. strategy. In Vietnam, the strategy was “Containment,” George Kennan’s famous formula for stopping the Soviet Union from expanding its empire. Eisenhower’s overwrought and ultimately disproved version had dominoes falling from Laos and Cambodia, on to Thailand and Burma, all the way to India.

    In Iraq, the grand strategy is global hegemony. It is the neo-conservatives’ vision of the once-in-a-millennium chance to dominate the world. With the Cold War ended and no plausible military challenger in sight, such a chance must not be let to pass, certainly not for want of sufficient “manhood”. Iraq is simply the first tactical step in this vision, the basis for controlling the world’s oil and, thereby, the US’s strategic competitors. This is the reason the Pentagon plans to leave 14 military bases in the country indefinitely—to project military power throughout the Persian Gulf, site of 55% of the world’s oil.

    Finally, it is the ideological context that perhaps most eerily presages (and dooms) the U.S. role in Iraq—just as it did in Vietnam. The Vietnam quagmire was formed in the toxic aftermath of World War II. When China fell to the communists in 1949, Republicans mounted an ideological dragnet to purge the government of those who had “lost China.” This morphed into Joe McCarthy’s witch hunts of the 1950s that targeted supposed “communist sympathizers” throughout the country.

    It was close personal knowledge of these ideologically-driven purges that drove Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and even Nixon to aver that they would never allow the U.S. to fail in Vietnam for fear of being portrayed as “soft on communism.” Despite the fact that all of these presidents were warned—repeatedly—that Vietnam was unwinnable, all “soldiered on”, dooming ever more soldiers and civilians to death and destruction.

    For years, the public rationale for U.S. involvement in Vietnam had been to keep Vietnam out of the hands of communists. But in March 1965, before the massive escalation that would make the war irreversible, Pentagon briefers told President Johnson that the true U.S. goals in Vietnam were, “70% to avoid a humiliating U.S. defeat; 20% to keep South Vietnam (and adjacent territories) from Chinese hands; 10% to permit the people of Vietnam a better, freer way of life.” This is the smoking gun of the ideological aversion to withdrawal.

    And so, because of the strategic imperatives of containment and the ideological pressures of McCarthyism, the U.S. couldn’t stay out of Vietnam. But because of the colonialist taint, the nature of guerilla war, the ludicrous fiction of “democracy”, and the foundation of lies that undergirded the entire venture, it could never win either. This was the essential, inescapable, tragic dilemma for America in Vietnam: it could not manage to stay out; but it could never manage to win.

    Much the same can already be said of Iraq. Bush’s latest post-hoc rationale, that “we’re changing the world,” betrays a near-messianic obsession to stay. Such compulsion is impervious to mere logic or facts. Steadily increasing violence and chaos are cheerily parried with ideological divinations that these are actually proof we are winning! In psychiatric wards, this would be dismissed for what it actually is: dangerous delusion.

    But as was the case with successive presidents in Vietnam, the necessity “to avoid a humiliating U.S. defeat” now drives Bush policy more than anything else. And we should be clear: this goes far beyond the need to simply maintain appearances until November. If the U.S. is driven from Iraq, the credibility of U.S. force and the potency of U.S. power in the world will be irreparably damaged, far more than it was by the loss in Vietnam. This is why Iraq may actually become worse than Vietnam.

    The reason is that military force has increasingly become the principal tool of persuasion for the U.S. in the world. Unlike the 1960s when its economy was still the envy of the world and its ideals were still the model for many nations, the U.S. economy is now a wreck and U.S. ideals are in tatters.

    The private U.S. economy is so uncompetitive it runs a half trillion dollar a year trade deficit with the rest of the world. And the U.S. lives so far beyond its means it runs a half trillion dollar a year federal budget deficit. It must go, hat in hand, to the rest of the world to borrow these sums, well more than two billion dollars a day. This is hardly a model of economic vibrancy. And the U.S.’s civic culture—what the neo-cons once lauded as “the soft power of ideas”—is now feared and mocked by much of the world, including former allies. And herein lies the danger.

    What is the point of spending more on the military than all of the rest of the world combined if it cannot deliver when called upon? In Vietnam, General Curtis LeMay answered this question with his famous dictum: “We’ll bomb them back into the stone age.” And Nixon tried, mightily. During one twelve-day period in December 1972 (the “Christmas Bombings”), the U.S. dropped more tons of bombs on North Vietnam than it had dropped during the entire period from 1969 to 1971, the military height of the war. When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

    This is now the danger for both Iraq and the U.S. Because of Bush’s strategic commitment to global hegemony and his messianic ideological persuasions, the U.S. cannot get out of Iraq; but because of the realities of colonialism, guerilla war, phony democracy, and the foundation of lies to justify it all, it will not be able to win either. Does this sound familiar?

    Worse, the forces for moderation in Vietnam (such as they were) are nowhere in sight in Iraq. There is no independent media capable of calling out the emperor’s nakedness. There is no China next door to threaten another Asian land war should U.S. aggression become too heinous. There are no allies the U.S. needs to heed for its Cold War against the Soviet Union. In fact, without the Soviet Union, the U.S.’s former allies look more and more like its future competitors. Hence its public derision for their counsel of restraint.

    Finally, if Iraq falls, Bush’s cabal of neo-conservative policy makers, never so much concerned with American interests as they are with their own, will be decisively, publicly, embarrassingly repudiated. All of this is a formula for potential catastrophe.

    The damage to U.S. prestige in the world for its illegal invasion of Iraq is already done. The danger now is that in his desperation to “avoid a humiliating U.S. defeat,” the repudiation of his entire presidency, and a generation-long disdain for U.S. military power, Bush will resort to apocalyptic barbarism. This is exactly what Nixon did trying to salvage “peace with honor” in Vietnam. It is this temptation that only the American public can force Bush to resist.

  • #2
    Give it a rest would ya?

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh yee of little faith. You' think we gassed Fallujah & Karbala like Saddam gassed those Kurdish villages during the nineteen eighties.

      Like it or not a lot of the worlds backwardness is going to do a 180, everyone that *****es about Saddam being removed as he should have, and Iraq being improved as a country can ***** about it all they want. It won't undo all the work that's been done and will continue to be done to stabilise Iraq.

      Comment


      • #4
        Lull,

        An interesting article.

        Thanks.

        Of course a lot of soldiers will die and more Iraqis.

        However, it will not be a Vietnam.


        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

        HAKUNA MATATA

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ray
          Lull,

          An interesting article.

          Thanks.

          Of course a lot of soldiers will die and more Iraqis.

          However, it will not be a Vietnam.
          Well, the opinion polls do seem to reflect that we'll be there a while! A very long while, if Bush persists in this misadventure.

          In all honesty just the existence of vast areas of resistance now within the centre of Iraq and the Sunni/ death triangle and its effects now creeping up north into Mosul and other adjoining areas and with Bush boy thumping his ass about attacking Iran, does anyone actually believes that the Shia's will actually sit back and relax?? And for how long?? :)

          I think the more beligerance the Neocons show, the more stronger the resistance wil become, as evidenced and vindicated from the last few months in Iraq!

          It is totally obvious even to the blind that outside terrorists are now flocking to Iraq to carry on this 'jihad'!

          Anyway here's anoher article!

          U.S. public fears Iraq another Vietnam: polls

          Associated Press

          WASHINGTON — Nearly two-thirds of Americans are concerned Iraq could become another Vietnam in which the United States does not accomplish its goals, despite many years of military involvement, a poll released Saturday indicated.

          A Newsweek magazine poll found 40 per cent are "very concerned" and an additional 24 per cent "somewhat concerned" Iraq could become another Vietnam.

          Even though there are growing concerns about Iraq, a majority -- 47 per cent -- said using military force was the right decision. And slightly more, 53 per cent, said they would support sending more troops in response to recent attacks against coalition forces.

          But people have sharply mixed feelings about longterm involvement in Iraq.

          More than one-half said they would only support keeping troops there an additional one to two years but military analysts have estimated U.S. troops may be there much longer.

          Polls by both Newsweek and CNN-Time out this weekend found 34 per cent approve of Bush's handling of Iraq and 61 per cent disapprove. That's a drop from polls earlier this year that showed slightly more approved than disapproved.

          The CNN-Time poll of 1,005 adults was taken Thursday and the Newsweek poll of 1,005 adults was taken Thursday and Friday. Both have margins of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

          Comment


          • #6
            Lull, you're like Michael Moore without the money and bad haircut.

            Comment


            • #7
              Lull,

              It maybe a misadventure.

              OK.

              But then what is the answer?

              Upstake?

              There would be a Sunni Shia bloodbath.

              As it is today a suicide bomber has rammed a truck into a Shia mosque. Do you think that they will take it lying down. The area is already getting ready for an internecine bloodbath!

              Get practical.

              Next you will fish out some article stating that the suicide bomber was actually an American wanting to start a Sunni Shia bloodbath so that the attention is diverted. eek!

              Friend, much that you may not like what has happened or happening, the reality has to be accepted and one should work to get the situation under control and not add to the problem and misery,


              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

              HAKUNA MATATA

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by M21Sniper
                Lull, you're like Michael Moore without the money and bad haircut.

                man I was so bored today after listening to the heart breaking story of the next door Tranny!

                Now 'it' spent its entire life in a half way house! And every single day it would wake up with his pants down to his God-damn ankles! on his side! and holdin a tub of vaseline! ...and moaning out loud...aaaaahhhhh he got me again!

                And here I am thinkin to my self What the hell! Now wasn't that deliberate!

                now the guy who would jump the tranny at night in the half way house/ rehab, without giving himself up looked exactly like Michael Moore! Thats right! A very big burly yet shy irish gay guy!

                Anyway did you guys see Michael moore on Jay Leno a couple of ays ago??? That son of a biach was wearin a suit, and he actually shaved ( exposing his triple chin )!

                I swear to God you could tell he's made a killing! And he was flaunting it!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ray
                  Lull,

                  It maybe a misadventure.

                  OK.

                  But then what is the answer?

                  Upstake?

                  There would be a Sunni Shia bloodbath.

                  As it is today a suicide bomber has rammed a truck into a Shia mosque. Do you think that they will take it lying down. The area is already getting ready for an internecine bloodbath!

                  Get practical.

                  Next you will fish out some article stating that the suicide bomber was actually an American wanting to start a Sunni Shia bloodbath so that the attention is diverted. eek!

                  Friend, much that you may not like what has happened or happening, the reality has to be accepted and one should work to get the situation under control and not add to the problem and misery,

                  Abaay yar! Comeon now! Shia sunni ******* has been going on for a very long time! This is nothing new! exactly like the protestant/ catholic pissing contest in northern Ireland! :)

                  In pakistan too there is the same problem. both the jahil communities at each others thoats.

                  they ave been doing this for the last 1400 years! its not gonna stop because Unkal sam decides that suddenly the time is up! :)
                  Last edited by Confed999; 04 Dec 04,, 19:08.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Also while everyone is at it, might as well get a reality check about the fate of our poor and innocent 18 year olds who have been deceased and or seriously injured now!

                    http://icasualties.org/oif/

                    Most probably the best single source for confronting the lie that Bush tells us all!

                    god damn lying neocon douche bags!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How many of those 18 yo's can you lay stake to?

                      Save your crocodile tears Yaar.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lull,

                        Once you are in it, casualties will happem, but one must take it in one's stride. Unfortunate, but inevitable!


                        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                        HAKUNA MATATA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by endlesscobra
                          Iraq is not going to be Vietnam for the simple reason that only 20% of the population (Sunni triangle) opposes US occupation, the remaining 80% don't. Shias want election to be held so that they can enjoy being in power first time in over 80 years.
                          Iraq could have been a Vietnam if all Iraqis were opposing the US miltary presence together.
                          While Iraq will not be a Vietnam, but peace will not come in a jiffy.

                          Some figures on Iraq:

                          Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian or other 5%

                          Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%

                          The issue is that the the durrounding countries except Iran is Sunni and Arabs. They will not the control go off so easily. As it is it is reported that Syria is sending 'freedom fighters'. They will try to ensure that the Sunni control is not lost. Those freak Saudis will be behind this game, you bet.

                          There is a good reason for the Saudis to do so. Eastern KSA is Shia. Now, if there is a continous belt of Shias from Western Afghanistan, Iraq to Eastern Saudi Arabia, the Saudis will have a difficult time. Whilst they can bumchum the Wahabis in KSA (behind US's back), the Shias will kick their bottoms.

                          Those countries which have a sizeable Moslem population know the intense rivalry amongst these two sects of Islam. They ahrte each otehr more than they hate infidels. I was once caught in the crossfire (shooting with automatics!) during Mohurrum in Lucknow and I had nothing to do since I am not a Moslem. It was horrifying.

                          So, though not a Vietnam, it still is not a cakewalk. The Sunnis will do everything to ensure that the election cannot be held.


                          "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                          I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                          HAKUNA MATATA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lulldapull
                            Also while everyone is at it, might as well get a reality check about the fate of our poor and innocent 18 year olds who have been deceased and or seriously injured now!
                            18 year olds account of 1.3% of fatalities in Iraq. So it might also be nice to remember the other 98.7% as well.

                            god damn lying neocon douche bags!
                            The feeling is mutual.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ray
                              While Iraq will not be a Vietnam, but peace will not come in a jiffy.

                              Some figures on Iraq:

                              Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian or other 5%

                              Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%

                              The issue is that the the durrounding countries except Iran is Sunni and Arabs. They will not the control go off so easily. As it is it is reported that Syria is sending 'freedom fighters'. They will try to ensure that the Sunni control is not lost. Those freak Saudis will be behind this game, you bet.

                              There is a good reason for the Saudis to do so. Eastern KSA is Shia. Now, if there is a continous belt of Shias from Western Afghanistan, Iraq to Eastern Saudi Arabia, the Saudis will have a difficult time. Whilst they can bumchum the Wahabis in KSA (behind US's back), the Shias will kick their bottoms.

                              Those countries which have a sizeable Moslem population know the intense rivalry amongst these two sects of Islam. They ahrte each otehr more than they hate infidels. I was once caught in the crossfire (shooting with automatics!) during Mohurrum in Lucknow and I had nothing to do since I am not a Moslem. It was horrifying.

                              So, though not a Vietnam, it still is not a cakewalk. The Sunnis will do everything to ensure that the election cannot be held.

                              Ray most of these terrorists are seeping in from KSA, kuwait, bahrain, Qatar, and other Gulf countries. While the other sizeable chunk is from Jordan/ Syria! :)

                              But the fact remains, the large majority of these guys are just young Iraqi's looking for vengeance!

                              Lets see how long Bush boy is willing to fight........

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X