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  • Who Killed the Electric Car?

    I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?" It's an interesting documentary on the disappearance of the electric car in the USA. It does not paint a pretty picture of the car companies, oil companies or the goverment. Anyone who's seen it have any comments?
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

  • #2
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    • #3
      Originally posted by McFire View Post
      I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?" It's an interesting documentary on the disappearance of the electric car in the USA. It does not paint a pretty picture of the car companies, oil companies or the goverment. Anyone who's seen it have any comments?
      Didn't see it, but it sounds interesting. I suppose it doesn't consider the hybrids to qualify as electric.

      I recall years ago that we had electric steetcars in DC and one day the transit company simply stopped using them. One of the explanations that made the rounds was that General Motors had a push on to sell buses and simply undercut the streetcar makers. Streetcars present other problems, like static routes, so I am not sure there really was a conspiracy, but it makes for interesting folklore.

      It seems to me a greater mistake was allowing steam driven autos to pass away. There is a club or association that still drives Stanley Steamers, which sold well in its heyday. I read a story about them. What I recall was that they couldn't blow up; they were totally quiet; and they accelerated faster and hit tops speeds well above any other car around at the time. Coal oil was used to heat the water and little was needed. A racing version topped 100 mph. It went airborne because they didn't understand the airfoil effect a car sitting high off the pavement has at high speed. There have been attempts to revive steam cars. I believe Lear, of Lear jet, tried. I don't know what happened to his project.
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
        Sweet. Wish I had an extra $92K to spare.

        If I don't buy a new Ford F-250 Lariat with 6.4 diesel to replace my 2003 and buy the Tesla instead, the fuel savings will pay for it 13 years, sooner if diesel goes over $2.70/gal (our local price). Problem is, it won't hold many 2x4s and could be a bit hard to get out of the mud at job sites.
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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        • #5
          Originally posted by McFire View Post
          I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?" It's an interesting documentary on the disappearance of the electric car in the USA. It does not paint a pretty picture of the car companies, oil companies or the goverment. Anyone who's seen it have any comments?
          That sounds very familiar. Especially with General Motors worming their way in that destroyed the Pacific Electric (Red Cars) light rail line in the Los Angeles and Orange counties.

          Of course, today we have much more powerful and compact batteries and cheap inverters that can change over from DC to AC. If such items existed 50 years ago for electric cars and self powered electric public transportation cars, there might not even be a General Motors that actually stole design and factory from Henry Ford.
          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
            the whole design seems to be taken from Lotus Elise?!? please check this:
            Lotus Products

            about the car companies, oil companies and the other related companies and the govt....they are not innocent at all i think?

            what about the Tucker case?....wasnt he the first user of safety belts, security glass etc..?
            Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Big K View Post
              the whole design seems to be taken from Lotus Elise?!? please check this:
              Lotus Products

              about the car companies, oil companies and the other related companies and the govt....they are not innocent at all i think?

              what about the Tucker case?....wasnt he the first user of safety belts, security glass etc..?
              Thank god for that, for a minute I thought you were saying that the Elise had gone electric. Damn near had a heart attack.....
              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

              Leibniz

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              • #8
                Lotus are a massive automotive consultancy with a small sports car company bolted on. I would not be in the slightest bit surprised if they had sold the right to use the Elise design (or rather parts of it) to the Tesla Motors company.
                Rule 1: Never trust a Frenchman
                Rule 2: Treat all members of the press as French

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                  Thank god for that, for a minute I thought you were saying that the Elise had gone electric. Damn near had a heart attack.....
                  This electric mambo-jambos performance specs are quite good on the other hand without the smell of burning engine oil, without the sound of screaming exhausts i can not realize that i am alive :)
                  Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by McFire View Post
                    I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?" It's an interesting documentary on the disappearance of the electric car in the USA. It does not paint a pretty picture of the car companies, oil companies or the goverment. Anyone who's seen it have any comments?
                    Who do you think killed the electric car?

                    I would drive an electric car if it's less than $20,000, seats 4 with a hatchback, has a highway range of 350+ miles on a single charge, takes less than 10 minutes to charge to full capacity, has a top speed of greater than 90mph, costs less than $0.15 per mile to operate, and can accelerate from 0 to 60mph in less than 10s, which is not a lot to ask.
                    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      Who do you think killed the electric car?

                      I would drive an electric car if it's less than $20,000, seats 4 with a hatchback, has a highway range of 350+ miles on a single charge, takes less than 10 minutes to charge to full capacity, has a top speed of greater than 90mph, costs less than $0.15 per mile to operate, and can accelerate from 0 to 60mph in less than 10s, which is not a lot to ask.
                      well,

                      Style 2-seat, open-top, rear-drive roadster - not quite useful

                      Motor 3-phase, 4-pole electric motor, 248hp peak (185kW), redline 13,500 rpm, regenerative "engine braking" - a lot of horses :)

                      Chassis Bonded extruded aluminum with 4-wheel wishbone suspension - very similar with Lotus Elise which is one of the best :)

                      Acceleration 0 to 60 in about 4 seconds - wow!!!

                      Top Speed Over 130 mph - not bad...

                      Range Over 200 miles - in which conditions????

                      Battery Life Useful battery life in excess of 100,000 miles - i am afraid of it would share the fate of my cellular phones battery????

                      Full Charge As short as 3.5 hours - well...every 320 km we have to wait 3,5 hours???

                      Pricing $98,000!!!!!!.....(if it is in sale in Turkey it would approximately $196,000 due to taxes and shipping and etc.)
                      Last edited by Big K; 25 May 07,, 09:22.
                      Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Big K View Post
                        Full Charge As short as 3.5 hours - well...every 320 km we have to wait 3,5 hours???

                        Pricing $98,000!!!!!!.....(if it is in sale in Turkey it would approximately $196,000 due to taxes and shipping and etc.)
                        That's what killed the electric car...practicality.

                        Electric cars do have their place. That is short range city driving in congested roadways. But most people can't afford to have 2 cars for 2 types of driving. Most people in the US have 2 cars for practical purposes. One for hauling the family and one for hauling big ticket items.
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                        • #13
                          Electric cars would solve many problems in the city (Pollution and noise). Electric cars are practical for daily commutes. We only need to invest in some infrastructure, ie plug ins at parking garages/spaces (many northern states already have these for block heaters), and we need the price of electric cars to come down to realistic prices and this will happen as models get away from being concept cars and get into the mass produced catagory of cars.
                          If 25-20% of all cars were electric the price of gas at the pump would go down. Now who doesn't want the price of gas to drop? Who takes refineries off line every spring for maintainance when those refineries should be cranking out as much gas as possible so the price of gas does not spike each and every summer. Who pays lobbyist and polititions millions to make sure the conversion to electric vehicles is as slow as possible? Who stands to lose the most when we convert away from the internal combustion engine? Big Oil companies.
                          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                          • #14
                            What killed the electric car were a lot of factors. One was that the big three auto makers did not see enough profit in the short term and they failed to look at the implications for the long term. They are still playing catch-up to Honda and Toyota. Initial costs were a factor, but more production leads to lower overall costs. The interest by the American people is there, but costs need to come down.
                            As for practicality, most Americans are not that practical (me included). Most families now have two cars, but how practical are those cars? A huge SUV or a super-duty pick-up truck, neither of which are really being used for what they are designed for. How many times a year does the average American carry a "big ticket" item in their vehicle?(once, maybe twice) Does a family of four really need that Suburban/Excursion? It really looks cool, but is it practical? I'm a truck kind of guy, but I usually use it more to help my friends than carry stuff for me. I would ride the bus to work, but my work schedule won't allow it. An electric car would be perfect for going to work. Leave the gas engine vehicle for weekends/trips etc.
                            RustyBattleship hit the nail on the head. General Motors bought the patents and rights to the Pacific Electric vehicles and they disappeared. Same with the electric cars. After a year lease to folks, GM refused to lease the vehicles any more, took them back and destroyed them. Since then, no more electric cars. The technology is there, but greedy, short-sided business decisions keep occuring. Now the big three are behind the power curve with Honda and Toyota making the money with hybrids. Also, a lot of money is being wasted on hydrogen cars which are not even close to being publically marketable.
                            Don't forget the oil companies. All electric means no one to buy gasoline.
                            Goverment too, would lose mega bucks since they would lose all the tax revenue from the gasoline taxes.
                            Anyway, it's stuff to make you go hmmmmmmm...
                            "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by McFire View Post
                              Also, a lot of money is being wasted on hydrogen cars which are not even close to being publically marketable.
                              This isn't hydrogen motor, but interesting........

                              I've been looking into a tech that converts water to HHO (from H20). It's called Browns' Gas and can be burned by regular gas and diesel engines as a supplement. Supposed to improve milage and cut down on emmissions. So far units that can be installed on ordinary cars and trucks are found only in fringe markets.

                              This newscast is what got me looking into it:

                              YouTube - Stan Meyer - Water Fuel Cell

                              I'd welcome any comments from tech types here on this. Also if anyone is interested I have a batch of URLs of sites I can post that tell about HHO and how to set up your auto. So far, I'm not 100% convinced, but with pump prices going up, I might take the plunge just to see if I can better my truck's milage.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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