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Thread: Massacre at Virginia Campus

  1. #226
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Well, after 12 pages I'm still not sure. America is apparently a violent society, but we've had mass murders like this here in NZ and we have tight gun control. When the murderers haven't been able to access guns they've still managed to kill using other weapons.

    Countries that have very tight gun control have the same murder rates (India) and some countries whos gun laws are as they say as loose as a goose (Switzerland) have hardly any violence in comparison.

    Plus this geezer was a nutter, as indeed all these mass-murderers are, and they'll find any way they can to kill, whether bomb, arson, or just plain old knife.
    Heretical as my fellow New Zealanders would view it, I can't help thinking that if a couple of the students had been packing, less people would have died.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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  2. #227
    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    You say you need them for protection, maybe so, but they are mainly a passion. Deny it. Passion first. Justification to fit. No?
    I have a passion, but the justification was already there, and always has been.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    According to Pari's figures 80,000+ Americans bite the dust per year as a result. If your Government was killing that many citizens you'd attack, right? You're not sheep after all..
    Those of us with guns can fight back. And we do. I've drawn my gun but have not been required to shoot. The people killed in this school could have fought back before guns were banned from the campus, just over a year ago. Interesting this event occured now...

    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    As for us "Europeans", the chances of invasion or the need for armed resistance against our government are approx 0.
    ROTFL!!!!!!!! That statement has gotten much of Europe conqured more than once. That's not mentioning the genocides and ethnic cleansings.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    armed burglars: too tiny to consider (until homeowners here start to keep guns). Why would I want a gun.
    You mean armed with a gun? What about a knife? What about a bat? The crowbar he used to break in? A brick? I'd want a gun against those myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    Say, are you still hung up on 1776? Is that why you all got guns. You need to stop worrying. We won't do it again, honest.
    We're not worried about you. The names change, but history repeats...

    You did notice I beat those murder statistics right?
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administrationís goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. Itís the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  3. #228
    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    I can't help thinking that if a couple of the students had been packing, less people would have died.
    ...
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administrationís goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. Itís the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  4. #229
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    However, living in similar isolation in the US I would probably feel safer with a gun, because the risk of armed threat, prepared to shoot first, is much greater, and that in turn is because homeowners have guns. Its a cycle that's difficult to reverse.
    Band, you're over there and have an impression of how things are here from the media and perhaps even from this board. But the fact is the US is much safer than the media lets on. Yes, there are some nasty places, but they are fewer than one supposes.

    I don't own a gun and don't feel a need to own one. I once had a rifle thinking that if worse came to worse I could hunt for my food. But I sold it.

    Still, I feel quite safe. I live near a small city in Virginia surrounded by small towns. The community numbers about 80,000 people. Around here people often forget to lock their doors at night. Mine are unlocked all day.

    Shootings happen maybe once or twice a year, and like any where else there are lesser crimes. But few of them would be prevented by owning a gun and even gun owners are likely to call the cops before using one.

    Yet, this is a big hunting area and there are guns everywhere. The gun culture goes back 300 years and the care and safety of guns is passed down from father to son. Guns are often the subject of conversation. Which is better in the woods, easier to handle, more true.

    Then, every once in awhile, someone with a mental problem, a beef against society, or whatever, goes ballistic and kills people randomly. And after every such killing the uproar begins: IF WE HAD GUN CONTROL THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED...SHAME ON THE NRA!!! The media goes into high gear..."if it bleeds, it leads" And the pro-con argument rages on until the dust settles and then there's another killing and we start all over again.

    So, the idea is to take all the father's and son's guns away or limit them to low calibre rifles, or whatever, and the killings will stop. Or maybe make it even harder to buy a handgun.

    But all of those fathers and sons know perfectly well that they are not to blame. They are just as sickened by what happened at VA Tech and Columbine as gun control advocates are.

    They fist fight in bars, argue at work and shoot the finger at a drivers, but the thought never enters their mind to get their gun and settle things.

    The anger and outrage at the VA Tech massacre is explosive. Blame is flying everywhere. Second guessing is rampant. Suddenly everyone has perfect 20-20 hindsight. This is the emotion of a lynchmob. As history shows, often the greatest injustices come not from the crime but from righteous anger.

    Come on over...it's safe. Cheers, Jad

  5. #230
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    Say, are you still hung up on 1776? Is that why you all got guns. You need to stop worrying. We won't do it again, honest.
    Oh, yeah. What about 1812?

  6. #231
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confed999 View Post
    And they got beat by farmers with their privately owned guns. God bless America.
    Well, be fair, they got beat only when we managed to raise a professional army, with help.

    -dale

  7. #232
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    You say you need them for protection, maybe so, but they are mainly a passion. Deny it. Passion first. Justification to fit. No? According to Pari's figures 80,000+ Americans bite the dust per year as a result. If your Government was killing that many citizens you'd attack, right? You're not sheep after all..
    You misunderstand what we "need" protection from. Criminals and bears and wild indians, sure. But the reality is that the 2nd Amendment ensures our protection from the government, if not by sheer firepower (I wouldn't want to bring my little Winchester '94 to an argument with an M240), then by mettle and responsibility.

    As for us "Europeans", the chances of invasion or the need for armed resistance against our government are approx 0.
    Good thing, because there's not much you could do about it, eh? Besides, your governments' powers are so vast and rooted in themselves that they don't need to send guys to oppress you - you're already used to it and demand more oppression before they can even dream it up for you.

    The chance of burglars is greater, but not that great; armed burglars: too tiny to consider (until homeowners here start to keep guns). Why would I want a gun.
    You're ignoring all the violent crime stats that soared. And you may not want a gun, that's fine, but don't presume that everyone else feels the same way.

    -dale

  8. #233
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Cho Seung-Hui was legally committed to a mental institution. That should bar somebody from being able to purchase a handgun in any state.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  9. #234
    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Cho Seung-Hui was legally committed to a mental institution. That should bar somebody from being able to purchase a handgun in any state.
    I agree.

    By The Associated Press

    Apr 17, 2007 (AP)ó Number of deaths from firearms for every 1,000,000 people in the following countries in 2003:

    Brazil: 213

    South Africa: 126

    United States: 41

    Canada: 5.1

    England and Wales: 0.3

    Japan: 0.3

    Source: The International Action Network on Small Arms using information from various government sources. 2003 was the most recent year that complete data from all countries was available.

    ABC News: Gun Homicide Rates Around the World

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Cho Seung-Hui was legally committed to a mental institution. That should bar somebody from being able to purchase a handgun in any state.
    This just goes to show this was the Left's fault through and through. Who undermined the mental health system, to its present state, thus insuring this loony wasn't locked up nice and proper where he couldn't hurt anyone until his problem was fixed? The Left. Who taught these kids not to fight back day in and day out insuring the death count went higher then needed? The Left. Who insured that the campus was disarmed so that no CCW holder could have put a stop to this? The Left.

    This time their neck needs to be slammed onto the chopping block. They are fully and utterly responsible for enabling this. If not for their constant dedicated work, this guy would have been locked up or otherwise properly monitored as the nut he was.

  11. #236
    Senior Contributor kams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Cho Seung-Hui was legally committed to a mental institution. That should bar somebody from being able to purchase a handgun in any state.
    Thank you, thats what I have been asking!!. Now which privacy law prevented the psychologists conclusion that 'he presented imminent danger to himself' from appearing on his record? Change that law.

    Man this is nuts, a Judge declares him fit for mental institution, a year later he buys two guns. What else needs to be said?

    Cho's temp detention order and psycological evaluation

  12. #237
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    I doubt that -- this isn't so much a partisan issue than pervasive, systemic flaws.

    Legal commitments to mental institutions should show up on background checks for firearms.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  13. #238
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    We're all Hokies this week.

  14. #239
    Tamizhanban Senior Contributor Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    I heard he lined up some students and shot them one by one. Did no one think of just jump the guy and make something happen?
    Yeah, I was pretty surprised too, but ir may be coz of the fact that VT is a major engineering school with a lot of international students.
    If there was atleast one veteran in the class room the story woudlve been different
    A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

  15. #240
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkllaw View Post
    I agree with that, I've seen many chinese people who came to America at that age and even though they have chinese spoken in their homes, a lot have have difficulty speaking chinese and some even forget. I went to a chinese new year festival in New York once and most of the kids speak english, only the older peoples seem to be able to speak their home language.
    My cousin's children (my cousin is now an American) can't speak Bengali, has no clue about our culture and have name which are Anglicised versions of their names and speaks with the US twang and are most unintelligible.

    So, what are they? I can say that they no longer have any resemblance to their Indian connection!

    If they are not Americans, then they sure are replicas of Donald Duck! And Donald Duck is an American!

    So, the contention that if someone goes to the US at the age of 8 has cultural disconnect is too difficult to accept.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

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