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Thread: Massacre at Virginia Campus

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    How do you propose to plug this gap of which you speak? What's your solution?

    -dale
    High tech licencing -limited term if workable-, requiring background checks including medical and police records. Each gun should have a "passport". Gun sellers should be held accountable under criminal law. Sure psychos can still get guns on the black market. But it makes it harder.

    Those that have had licence applications turned down on psychiatric grounds should automatically have a police record.

    It's not a solution. It reduces the problem. There is no "solution".

    Gunnut's previous comments were interesting, claiming living in isolation in the countryside as a good reason to own a gun. It's not unique. Millions of people in similar societies live isolated in the UK, Canada, Aus. We live 25miles from the nearest full time manned police station. Cops here aren't even armed. Break-ins are not uncommon, but always stealthy, never armed. We have never felt the need to own a gun. We are not at risk.

    However, living in similar isolation in the US I would probably feel safer with a gun, because the risk of armed threat, prepared to shoot first, is much greater, and that in turn is because homeowners have guns. Its a cycle that's difficult to reverse.

    Even if it was potentially reversible and you could become as safe as a UK citizen, it wouldn't happen, because Americans like their toys too much.

  2. #212
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    As usual, Mr. Steyn has pretty much read my mind:

    LinkyDink.

    Point one: They’re not “children.” The students at Virginia Tech were grown women and — if you’ll forgive the expression — men. They would be regarded as adults by any other society in the history of our planet.
    I know some ran and were trapped, some got away, and some even resisted to a degree, but come on. One guy, 2 pistols.

    Wake up, people.

    -dale

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    He'd been here since age 8... I'm sure the change from Korea to America at that age must have had some effect on him, but I doubt he could be considered a foreigner at that age. From age 8 one should assimilate into the language and culture shortly.
    I agree with that, I've seen many chinese people who came to America at that age and even though they have chinese spoken in their homes, a lot have have difficulty speaking chinese and some even forget. I went to a chinese new year festival in New York once and most of the kids speak english, only the older peoples seem to be able to speak their home language.
    Those who can't change become extinct.

  4. #214
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    High tech licencing -limited term if workable-, requiring background checks including medical and police records. Each gun should have a "passport". Gun sellers should be held accountable under criminal law. Sure psychos can still get guns on the black market. But it makes it harder.

    Those that have had licence applications turned down on psychiatric grounds should automatically have a police record.

    It's not a solution. It reduces the problem. There is no "solution".
    I was going to attempt to address each point in line but I can't - my mind doesn't even work that way and that's hardly the point. To restrict one's ability to arm oneself to such a degree is just mind-boggling to me. It's chilling.

    Anyway, you're really just putting lipstick on a pig - you are afraid of guns and afraid of individual liberty. I don't know why, but you are. I can't adress that by pointing out the foolishness of medical checks or asking what you mean by gun "passports".

    Gunnut's previous comments were interesting, claiming living in isolation in the countryside as a good reason to own a gun. It's not unique. Millions of people in similar societies live isolated in the UK, Canada, Aus. We live 25miles from the nearest full time manned police station. Cops here aren't even armed. Break-ins are not uncommon, but always stealthy, never armed. We have never felt the need to own a gun. We are not at risk.

    However, living in similar isolation in the US I would probably feel safer with a gun, because the risk of armed threat, prepared to shoot first, is much greater, and that in turn is because homeowners have guns. Its a cycle that's difficult to reverse.

    Even if it was potentially reversible and you could become as safe as a UK citizen, it wouldn't happen, because Americans like their toys too much.
    We're men, not sheep. That's why we're not under your crown any longer. Figure it out.

    -dale

  5. #215
    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    Otherwise, the figures above scream "It's the guns!".
    The murder rate in Kennesaw, Georgia is .19/100k. Beats every one of your stats. The figure screams, "It's the guns!"
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  6. #216
    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    We're men, not sheep. That's why we're not under your crown any longer. Figure it out.
    And they got beat by farmers with their privately owned guns. God bless America.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  7. #217
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    High tech licencing -limited term if workable-, requiring background checks including medical and police records. Each gun should have a "passport". Gun sellers should be held accountable under criminal law. Sure psychos can still get guns on the black market. But it makes it harder.

    Those that have had licence applications turned down on psychiatric grounds should automatically have a police record.
    We have all these measures in place. All they do is making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns while having no effect on the criminals. They steal, rob, traffic, even manufacture their own guns. There is no amount of background check that can prevent a determined criminal from getting his gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    It's not a solution. It reduces the problem. There is no "solution".
    And very limited and specific type of reduction. Mainly those "in the heat of the moment" type or people who are unstable and have had previous records already.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    Gunnut's previous comments were interesting, claiming living in isolation in the countryside as a good reason to own a gun. It's not unique. Millions of people in similar societies live isolated in the UK, Canada, Aus. We live 25miles from the nearest full time manned police station. Cops here aren't even armed. Break-ins are not uncommon, but always stealthy, never armed. We have never felt the need to own a gun. We are not at risk.

    However, living in similar isolation in the US I would probably feel safer with a gun, because the risk of armed threat, prepared to shoot first, is much greater, and that in turn is because homeowners have guns. Its a cycle that's difficult to reverse.

    Even if it was potentially reversible and you could become as safe as a UK citizen, it wouldn't happen, because Americans like their toys too much.
    That is correct. The gun culture is too ingrained in us. Early pioneers and settlers needed these things for hunting and for protection.

    Europe is different. Hunting is not a right, but a priviledge granted by the royals.



    I noticed that no one has answered my question about the guilty guns. If guns really are evil and cause mass shootings, why don't we put the suspect weapons on trial? Why do we try people? After all, without guns, they couldn't possibly have committed those crimes.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  8. #218
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    we like our freedom, and abuility to defend ourselves, not run away, like sheep,
    god made people, samuel colt made them equal.

  9. #219
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    i had to go thru hell, for 9 mounts, to get my pistol lisence, 2 mounts to get rifle and shotgun permit, don't you think it's sufficient enough of gun control ??

  10. #220
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    As usual, Mr. Steyn has pretty much read my mind:

    LinkyDink.



    I know some ran and were trapped, some got away, and some even resisted to a degree, but come on. One guy, 2 pistols.

    Wake up, people.

    -dale
    That's the question I have. If I know I'm gonna die, I'm gonna resist.

    I heard he lined up some students and shot them one by one. Did no one think of just jump the guy and make something happen?

    I know our colleges are liberal cesspools but come on, they washed away all individual initiatives.

    These students talk a good game about democracy and freedom and how oppressed we are under Bush and how we need to get our liberty back. When the chips are down, they are just a bunch of sheep like how their professors made them.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  11. #221
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omon View Post
    i had to go thru hell, for 9 mounts, to get my pistol lisence, 2 mounts to get rifle and shotgun permit, don't you think it's enough gun control already??
    That depends...are you nuts?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  12. #222
    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    because Americans like their toys too much.
    Guns aren't toys. Guns are tools. Guns allow one to defend themselves, their loved ones, their neighbors and their property from criminals, invaders, and more importantly, their government. I am still amazed Europeans, of all people, haven't learned this very simple lesson.

    "While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny." - Rev. Nicholas Collin

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    The gun culture is too ingrained in us.
    We know that self-defence is a human right. Taking that right by law is tyranny. If the government were to ever try and confiscate the public's firearms the death count would be much much higher than 33. Rightfully so...
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confed999 View Post
    Guns aren't toys. Guns are tools. Guns allow one to defend themselves, their loved ones, their neighbors and their property from criminals, invaders, and more importantly, their government. I am still amazed Europeans, of all people, haven't learned this very simple lesson.
    You say you need them for protection, maybe so, but they are mainly a passion. Deny it. Passion first. Justification to fit. No? According to Pari's figures 80,000+ Americans bite the dust per year as a result. If your Government was killing that many citizens you'd attack, right? You're not sheep after all..

    As for us "Europeans", the chances of invasion or the need for armed resistance against our government are approx 0. The chance of burglars is greater, but not that great; armed burglars: too tiny to consider (until homeowners here start to keep guns). Why would I want a gun.

    Say, are you still hung up on 1776? Is that why you all got guns. You need to stop worrying. We won't do it again, honest.

  14. #224
    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    Say, are you still hung up on 1776? Is that why you all got guns. You need to stop worrying. We won't do it again, honest.
    I have an individual, private right to bear arms for the defense of my home and family. Now, I keep a .357 under the front seat of my truck, in a holster, safety lock on. Now, if I go to Wal-mart, oh, say around midnight, and do a little shopping, there is a high probability of getting mugged while getting in my truck in the parking lot. When the perp approaches my truck with his weapon, I will reach over to get my purse, and when I do, .... well, let's just say, he's gona get a little more than what he was asking for.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by jame$thegreat View Post
    That should be the case Ironduke, however nowadays many foreigners refuse to assimilate into American culture and are adamant about retaining their culture and language in this country. Many of our ancestors came to this country are learned as many American customs as soon as possible, as my ancestors did. My grandmother even refused to teach my mother Italian because "this is a rich country, you speak English here!" Then (here comes the kicker) they want us to be more understanding of their culture and beliefs! If they are so set on their culture and beliefs why didnt they stay where that was the norm?
    His profile is that he is assimilated. On average, newly arrive Asian tend to study "hard sciences" like engineering, physics, biology, etc. His area of study was English.

    He is the same with the Columbine killers. Being born in Korea has nothing to do with it.

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