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Thread: Joint Mobile Offshore Base

  1. #46
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    Besides, didn't you know Politicos lives are more inportant than soldiers?
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

  2. #47
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    Originally posted by M21Sniper
    I tend to agree TH. Patton was famous for the quote "Static fortifications are a testament to the foolishness of men", or something to that extent.
    Roman fortifications worked for centuries. Land warfare wasn't so mobile back then either, I suppose.

  3. #48
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    What????? The Romans were known for their offense not there defense. Thats why they were great road builders, some of which still exist today. They were also known for overextending themselves which proved their undoing.

  4. #49
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    What????? The Romans were known for their offense not there defense. Thats why they were great road builders, some of which still exist today. They were also known for overextending themselves which proved their undoing.
    Overextending had nothing to do with the collapse of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire exsisted over 200 years after they stoped expanding.

    The reasons that caused their downfall...
    1.) Their military was no longer professional, and was made up of conquered undiciplined barbarians
    2.) Huge ammounts of inflation
    3.) Slave Revolts
    4.) Civil War
    5.) They were no longer bringing home looted treasures of conquered enemys


    Patton's quote applys to the Roman Empire, because the Roman Empire collapsed only after they stoped expanding.
    Last edited by Praxus; 22 Sep 03, at 02:22.

  5. #50
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    Anyone who saw the Swiss Forts or what the Czechs did to the Sutterland knows that these things can take a hell of a beating.

    As for Patton, he'll burn men and material to breach those forts. Would work but I don't want to be under him when he does.

    Praxus,

    The Roman Army became mercenary but anyone who studied the Goths, the Huns, and the Franks - they ain't undisciplined barbarians but well trained and well organzied forces. Most had studied and employ Roman Generals.

  6. #51
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    The thing with static defenses is that well....they're static.

    If i want to overrun a static defense, i drive around it, and let my follow on elements encircle it and starve em out.

    There is no need to assault static defenses directly unless they block the only route to the objective.

    Just ask the French......

  7. #52
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    With static defences, you've placed them directly where the enemy has to go. The Maginot Line collapsed because the French thought the Wehrmact could not breach the Belgian Forest.

    Today, the answer would have been obvious once you knew the Wehrmact are making the attempt. Mine the friggin path.

    Static defences had worked in the past and against manouver generals at that.

    Chuikov at Stalingrad stopped Paulis (well, delayed until Zukhov launched his Deep Battle fights)

    Kesselring stopped Patton and Montgomery at the Gustav Line.

    The Americans held Bastonge against all efforts by the Wehrmacht.

    Khe Sanh broke the back of the NVA during Tet.

  8. #53
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    Yep, cause those objectives were all needed(either politicly, or militarily), so they couldn't be bypassed.

    A look at WWII in the pacific shows that fortresses(in the shape of islands) can and are bypassed whenever possible.

    Whole hosts of defended isles were ignored by MacArthur in his drive across the Pacific.

  9. #54
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    M21,

    Not quite true, MacArthur may have pypassed them but it was left to the USN subs to strangle them.

    There's alot to be considered when talking about static defences. I could (and did) write whole articles on these things. Suffice to say the best ones are hasty defences that evolve into prepared defences. Depth is a tactical requirement and the strongest points of a prepared defence is the back door. As long as you've got that, your defence will hold, not necessary your line but your defence.

  10. #55
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    Praxus,

    The Roman Army became mercenary but anyone who studied the Goths, the Huns, and the Franks - they ain't undisciplined barbarians but well trained and well organzied forces. Most had studied and employ Roman Generals.
    It's not that they were undiciplined per say, it's that they had less loyalty to Rome. So they would be less likely to hold the line against enemys.

    All of this really is irrelivent because Rome did not fall because over expansion.

    Khe Sanh broke the back of the NVA during Tet.
    Yes that is true but we couldn't win the war if we didn't attack.

    Defense will stop you from losing a war but attacking will allow you to win the war.

  11. #56
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    "Defense will stop you from losing a war but attacking will allow you to win the war."

    Isn't that always the case?

    Besides, a good defense is a good offense and vice-versa
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

  12. #57
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    "Defense will stop you from losing a war but attacking will allow you to win the war."
    *** sigh ***

    War of 1812
    Napoleon's march into Russia
    Waterloo
    1979 Sino-VN War
    Carrhae
    Lybian Invasion of Chad (defeated by the French Foreign Legion)
    Mogadishu (ie Black Hawk Down - the Americans claim it was a defeat.)

    Want more?

  13. #58
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    Sir, i am not disputing the value of prepared positions, i am only stating that static defenses alone are a certain recipe for disaster.

  14. #59
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    I think we have cross-sigs here. With any defence, you have to have manouver if only to get the hell out of Dodge when the defence collapses.

    Note the following diagram for a combat team defence and how the recee always keeps an eye on the backdoor.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  15. #60
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    Good illustration of defense in depth.

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