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Thread: Preacher of hate 'who praised 7/7 bombers' is arrested

  1. #31
    Military Professional Callmecur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    I am surprised that willfully they don't allow their women folk to learn English.

    What about the second generation Pakistani women? Are they also deprived?

    Do the Pakistani girls mix with society in general like any youngster would or do they remain like the 'touch me not' plant (for the want of a better word to describe the point).
    To be fair it is normally the first generation ladies who fail to learn the English language and second and subsequent generation females are brought up as English speakers. Some second generation girls mix with white English girls but generally tend to stick with their own groups; although more westernised than their parents, they are still liable to be sent 'home' for arranged marriages and observe Ramadan and other traditions so not fully integrated into the British way of life.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    That is called Al Takiya.

    Well, at least in concept.
    If it's a Trojan horse you'd expect them to have chosen a name that's better known. Most people haven't heard of Khalil Ghibran. Those who have are likely to assume that he was a Muslim writer. Am I wrong?

    I don't know about Al Takiya as you portray it. Muslims tell me that it exists, but only as a way of protecting themselves when they're up against the wall. (Or is that explanation also Al Takiya).

    It is certainly a wonderful propaganda tool for Islamophobes on the right of our societies. It means there is no way "moderate" Muslims can be reassuring and effectively communicate goodwill. Whenever I have seen it written about in your terms it has originated from that brigade, such as Benador Associates et al.

    I'm not buying but I'm not closing my mind either.

  3. #33
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    A faith school is a nice way to call a madrassa.

    It is true Khalil does sound a Moslem name. ARe yousure that those who will go to this madrassa would not know that this gentleman is not a Moslem?

    He is quite a famous Lebanese.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    A faith school is a nice way to call a madrassa.

    It is true Khalil does sound a Moslem name. ARe yousure that those who will go to this madrassa would not know that this gentleman is not a Moslem?
    Actually I have no idea, I'm only going on how well known he is in the Uk. As he lived and wrote in the US perhaps he is better known over there.

    His writings are very humanist (with small "h") and devoid of religious doctrine, and would appeal to "decent" people from all religious backgrounds, athough the fact that there is no doctrine in his writings probably makes it less appealing to Muslims and would certainly indicate to them that he was not a Muslim. (In fact I think his writings were partly his attempt to offset anti-human Christian doctrine).

    But the point you were making was that calling a school after him might be an attempt to put a madrassa wolf in sheeps clothing, in which case it is more relevant to wonder what the society at large knows about Khalil Ghibran.

    Those that know of him vaguely would probably assume he was a Muslim writer. I cynically reckon his writings are lost on modern America.
    Last edited by bandwagon; 15 Feb 07, at 12:46.

  5. #35
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    I have not read Kahlil Gibran but I believe his wrote very spiritual books.

    He, I believe, was strongly attached to the Maronite Catholic traditions. He was excommunicated by the Maronite church for 'Spirits Rebellious', a book that criticised the structure of the church and the state. He wanted to show the basic similarities and unity between Islam and Christianity. He had previously dreamed of building an edifice in Beirut with a church's dome and a mosque's minaret.

    The fact that he wanted to show the similarities between Christianity and Islam is possibly the reason why the Madrassa in a predominantly Christian country is named after him.

    Thus, possibly the message to the Americans, through the naming of the madrassa, to go easy on Islam, it having commonalities with Christianity as enunciated by Khalil Gibran.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  6. #36
    Senior Contributor BenRoethig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    What I would sure like to know as to why he converted!

    Let people get to the root of the motivation! There must be something terrific for a person to convert and adopt only the violent aspect of a religion!

    What is that? Frustration, anger at society, wants to be in the limelight or sincerely believes in the religion or what?

    Then, things will pan out.
    Usually these kind of people have hate in their hearts to begin with. They look for a purpose for them selves and that hate. It's a lot easier to live with yourself if you think it's god's will or your doing all the "worthy people" a favor.
    F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

  7. #37
    In Memoriam Military Professional dave lukins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post
    Usually these kind of people have hate in their hearts to begin with. They look for a purpose for them selves and that hate. It's a lot easier to live with yourself if you think it's god's will or your doing all the "worthy people" a favor.
    It is a concept not easy to grasp..nobody is born with hate in their hearts ,it must be taught..Please tell me what religeon teaches hate?

  8. #38
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Dave,

    I could, but I won't.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor BenRoethig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave lukins View Post
    It is a concept not easy to grasp..nobody is born with hate in their hearts ,it must be taught..Please tell me what religeon teaches hate?
    But its firmly cemented by the time they reach adulthood. No religion teaches hate. That's one of the main distinctions between a religion and a cult along with openness and freedom of choice.
    F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

  10. #40
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post
    But its firmly cemented by the time they reach adulthood.
    No religion teaches hate.
    That's one of the main distinctions between a religion and a cult along with openness and freedom of choice.
    I disagree, but like Ray I think I will not say, as it will result in a pointless escalation in posts
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  11. #41
    In Memoriam Military Professional dave lukins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    Dave,

    I could, but I won't.
    Point taken Gents . I will take an educated "guess "and leave it at that!

  12. #42
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    It is certainly a wonderful propaganda tool for Islamophobes on the right of our societies. It means there is no way "moderate" Muslims can be reassuring and effectively communicate goodwill. Whenever I have seen it written about in your terms it has originated from that brigade, such as Benador Associates et al.
    Couldn't agree more and frankly it runs counter to the basic precepts of any logical argument.

    It offers an absolute argument that what Muslims say can never be trusted. Logically, therefore, Muslims never tell the truth. By creating a premise for an argument, that is also the conclusion, it's an invalid argument (if I remember my first year philosophy properly).
    Last edited by PubFather; 15 Feb 07, at 17:49.
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  13. #43
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    BTW - Christianity teaches hate. Hatred for sin, the Devil and the forces of evil... Some Christians were (and are) more than happy to interpret that has a hatred of the infidel, homosexuals, "Satanists", atheists etc.

    John 14-6
    "No man can come to the father except through me"
    - which shows it is merely Islam that claims to the sole, correct religion.

    Acts 4; 12
    nor is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
    Last edited by PubFather; 15 Feb 07, at 17:51.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - Scottish Motto

    "They that approve a private opinion, call it opinion; but they that dislike it, heresy; and yet heresy signifies no more than private opinion” Thomas Hobbes - Leviathan


  14. #44
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    Last edited by Parihaka; 16 Feb 07, at 09:42.

  15. #45
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PubFather View Post
    BTW - Christianity teaches hate. Hatred for sin, the Devil and the forces of evil... Some Christians were (and are) more than happy to interpret that has a hatred of the infidel, homosexuals, "Satanists", atheists etc.

    John 14-6 - which shows it is merely Islam that claims to the sole, correct religion.
    Acts 4; 12
    ok PF but which version of the bible are you quoting John 14-6? I am not a religous person but the last time I looked there was a myriad of versions of the book, which surely means we can pick and choose to suit our argument at the time or interpretation?.........the principle maybe the same but the interpretation we choose could be used to prove a personal point of view.
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

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