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  • Counterfeiting In China

    Edit by Tophatter: This thread consists of posts from another thread. Please read this post first before continuing:
    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/339386-post14.html


    First, China and Russia solved their disputes over their border. The last disputed 3 islands in the bordering river were divided between China and Russia . China and Russia each got a small island. The larger island was divided into 2 parts, one part for China and one part for Russia .
    China-Russia border agreement example for settling disputes: FM

    I didn’t know any disputes over any part of Mongolia either.

    Secondly is the fact that the PRC is an expansionist regime having fought 4 wars on forgien soil since is creation as an agressor state
    Second, we don’t agree that PRC fought 4 wars on foreign soil since its creation. PRC fought Korea war on Korea soil by invitation. China fought Sino-Vietnam war partly on Vietnam soil for border dispute and other reasons. There is debate in China today if we should fight that war the way we fought for red Cambodia although most people still support China’s Koran war effort. Today, I don’t think that China wants to fight another Koran war either against N. Korea or protecting N. Korea.

    Anyway, American went thousand miles come to fight. China fought in front of its door. The China fought other wars on disputed areas.

    Thirdly is massive population pressure
    Third, I agree that it is a massive pressure but if you deal with it wisely, it becomes your competition strength. It is China’s competition strength now.

    Fourth is massive Chinese imigrant incursions into Russia.
    Fourth, how massive? More than Mexican immigrant incursions to American? Will Mexican immigrant causes war between Mexico and America ?

    China is a poor country. Poor Chinese just like poor Mexican go to American looking for a better life for themselves and their families. Giving the opportunity, the hard working Chinese go to anywhere in the world. The new Russian immigration law will drive many Chinese back to China .

    Fifth China has a huge demand for resources it does not hav ein enough quantity to be self suffieicent, Russia has them.
    Fifth, I totally agree with Alex_Ivannov, buying resources is much easier than going to war with any country, no need to mention the mighty Russia.

    These and other factors can combine in a multitude of ways to spark a conflict.

    The Threat

    10-1 population advantage

    better technology in many areas including things like computers and information management

    Rapidly increasing domestic advanced heavy industry with new tanks and planes on par with Russia's.

    stronger economic footing and massive cash reserves

    Has most of the Russian goodies and technology to study

    Nuclear weapons

    bigger defence budget

    All of the above sitting right next door to Russia not hundreds or thousands of Km away like NATO or the US
    NATO is rushing to Russsia's heart land, the Europe Russia.


    During China’s terrible “culture revolution” era, China and USSR was in much worse relation. In my personal opinion, I think that Mao should bear more responsibility than Khrushchev should in the break of China/USSR relation. Of cause, Khrushchev's big brother attitude and his proposal of a joint Navy would not be well accepted by Mao.

    China/USSR relation was calmed and then improved even before USSR's disintegration. When Gorbachev visited Beijing in May 1989, Chinese students occupied Tiananmen square demanding democracy. The Deng Xiaoping must have been embarrassed greatly.

    Mao’s era died with him. Communism is a foreign idea, good or bad. Chinese come back to their traditional culture. Chinese don’t have extreme religious ideology and can be friend to everyone. Respect the older, respect the order, respect the discipline, respect the neighbor and respect each other are Chinese culture. Chinese are not expansionists after main stream Chinese culture prevailed in Han dynasty almost 2000 years ago. After Han dynasty, most China's expansion was caused by China's invaders. They invaded China and brought their land into China. They accepted Chinese culture and finally become Chinese. The same story repeated itself many times. Those new Chinese were normally more aggressive than the Chinese. China was a little bit aggressive in Tang dynasty, but some people believe that the Tang emperors were Chinesenized Hun (匈奴) or Chinese influenced by Hun culture. However, they created the golden age for China .

    In Ming Dynasty, from 1405 to 1433, Zheng He led the largest fleet in the world at that time and traveled to Africa, but Chinese did not enslave Africans, did not occupy any places and did not loot the locals. That answered the question of Alex_Ivanov why China hadn't colonized Siberia and Far East before Russians came there. Chinese culture developed from land agriculture. Chinese hardly go to places that can not farm in that time. Chinese lived on their own hard working. China's ancient north neighbors frequently lived on looting China. If China didn’t have communist and Mao, I am not even sure whether China would have the courage to get Tibet back.

    Chinese are hard working to make small amount of money to support their family. Sending their kids to a better school is much much more important to them than any other things in the world. My parents saved every penny for my education. China is finally getting a better time to heal its wounds caused by itself and others. We don't want any wars with anyone unless is imposed. Chinese defense budget is really for defense. I think that among the 5 UNSC permanent members, China is the only one that had announced nuclear policy of “No First Use” to any countries since the first day it tested nuke.
    I am here for exchanging opinions.

  • #2
    China is a poor country. Poor Chinese just like poor Mexican go to American looking for a better life for themselves and their families. Giving the opportunity, the hard working Chinese go to anywhere in the world.
    Really? I was always under the impresstion that there was plenty of money to be made, right there in China, usually by the criminal counterfeiting of products.

    After all, when a country, it's government, it's citizens and it's culture don't give a damn about things like "intellectual property rights", "copyrights" and "trademarks" and have utterly no moral issues with cheating other people blind by deliberately selling them counterfeit - meaning fake - products and then pleading ignorance and innocence when they are caught red-handed....

    ...not to mention a thoroughly corrupted government that aids and abets these actions....

    ...wow, I'd think I could make a TON of money in your poor country.

    Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
    Mao’s era died with him. Communism is a foreign idea, good or bad. Chinese come back to their traditional culture.
    You got that right! A Chinese saying "Spare Parts, Let's Make Money!"

    Poor Chairman Mao must be rolling over in his grave right now...
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Poor Chairman Mao must be rolling over in his grave right now...[/QUOTE]

      True if he was buried..however being in a sealed glass-box for all who wish to see him, "rolling" would certainly bring in the tourist!!

      Comment


      • #4
        The Chinese are sharp businessmen. Malaysia has to be seen to realise how they have Malaysia by the gonads. Much that Mahatir tried to make Malaysia a 'genuine' Islamic state, the Chinese kept him in check, since they control the economy. The Malays don't like the Chinese and are always complaining that thought they have money, they are stingy in their lifestyle etc.

        They aren't all the counterfeiting type.

        They have contributed to the Indian economy in their own way and having become educated and smart, they are all leaving for Canada or the US.

        They keep to themselves and they do not rock the boat.......at least the Chinese in India!

        Most of the Indian Chinese had come when the KMT regime was overthrown by the Communists.


        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

        HAKUNA MATATA

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ray
          The Chinese are sharp businessmen.
          Sharp? That's putting it mildly. Having dealt with Chinese companies for the past 3 years, I can assure you that "sharp" doesn't even begin to cover it.

          Here in the United States, we don't think much of driving a few miles over the speed limit. Technically it's breaking the law, but even the police won't bother to pull you over for a measly 3 or 4 over.

          In China, the same attitude prevails over swindling people out of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars by selling them counterfeit goods.

          I'm not talking about Prada handbags. I'm referring to electronic components that are intended for medical equipment, aircraft, automobiles, and a host of other items that human lives depend on.

          It's a great big joke to cheat Westerners - especially the stupid Americans - and then brag about it to your friends. The great big joke is that the Chinese government and courts will do little to nothing to stop them.

          The world's largest counterfeit factory is China. Not IN China, it IS China.

          Unfortunately, it's hardly just a complete lack of morals and ethics on the part of the vast majority of Chinese, it's also other country's greed that has caused this problem to skyrocket. Chinese labor is cheap and plentiful, and so other companies have exported their know-how, blueprints, machine tools and license to Chinese manufacturers.

          I'm going to prune these posts off to a new thread, as I don't want to hijack this thread.
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TopHatter
            Really? I was always under the impresstion that there was plenty of money to be made, right there in China, usually by the criminal counterfeiting of products.
            Correct, it is done by criminal counterfeiting of products just like the criminal drug dealers making plenty of money on American streets.

            After all, when a country, it's government, it's citizens and it's culture don't give a damn about things like "intellectual property rights", "copyrights" and "trademarks" and have utterly no moral issues with cheating other people blind by deliberately selling them counterfeit - meaning fake - products and then pleading ignorance and innocence when they are caught red-handed....
            First, most Chinese export done by foreign companies. Second, I am not going to defend these problems for China. China should make more effort to solve them.

            But most countries had/have/will have similar problems in some part of their history.

            You may not know that the technology piracy was the premier tool to industrial development for America in its early days. It is aided and abetted by the may or may not be corrupted government. But I understand that it is just part of the human history and would not jump to accuse American government, citizens and its culture. I am not going to say that American is ignorance and I am still assuming that American is innocence although I know that American did lot of technology piracy.

            Please read:

            A U.S. Technology Double Standard?

            A U.S. Technology Double Standard? by Doron Ben-Atar - The Globalist > > Global History


            ...not to mention a thoroughly corrupted government that aids and abets these actions....
            Chinese hate the corruption of its government more than anyone else. But if you have evidence that the corrupted government aids and abets these actions please go to CNN or Fox. That will make great news.

            ...wow, I'd think I could make a TON of money in your poor country.
            If you are an investor in China , we hope that you make a TON of money in our poor country to attract more investors. But please don’t do something like this American guy who was born to wealth and privilege and was caught red-handed.

            Wired 13.10: The Decline & Fall of Randolph Hobson Guthrie III

            You got that right! A Chinese saying "Spare Parts, Let's Make Money!"

            Poor Chairman Mao must be rolling over in his grave right now...

            China is a big technology (intellectual property) buyer in the world. EU is the No. 1, Japan is the No. 2 and US is the No. 3 technology seller to China . Please read:

            China Approves 10,000 Tech Import Contracts » Netscape.com
            I am here for exchanging opinions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TopHatter
              In China, the same attitude prevails over swindling people out of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars by selling them counterfeit goods.

              I'm not talking about Prada handbags. I'm referring to electronic components that intended for medical equipment, aircraft, automobiles, and a host of other items that human lives depend on.
              I don't know TopHatter, back in the day my girlfriend insisted that her life depends as much on her Prada bag as the seatbelt holding her in place while powersliding a 90 degree turn at 50 mph.
              In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
              The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

              Comment


              • #8
                Zeng_xinren

                As far as Indian Chinese are concerned, they are a great lot. No complaints about them.

                The statistics that you show about everything in moderation in China is because you have a totalitarian regime that brooks no nonsense against the State.

                This has nothing to do with Chinese culture.

                It doesn't matter if they integrate with the local customs and society, so long as they have their excellent Chinese restaurants and the Chinese shoemakers and other artisans who are excellent in their trade.

                The wooden staircase in my house none could make till my father contact Mr Chun, a Chinese carpenter.

                Even today, it is a beauty and a heartburn to many including the Corporation inspector who sated that a wooden staircase is dangerous since it could burn!

                But they are sharp businessmen.

                Top Hatter is right about counterfeits about the Chinese Chinese from China.

                Indian Chinese are not like that.


                "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                HAKUNA MATATA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  Correct, it is done by criminal counterfeiting of products just like the criminal drug dealers making plenty of money on American streets.
                  Just a SLIGHT difference : In China, the making and selling of counterfeit goods is done out in the open:



                  Those are pictures of a semiconductor "flea market" in Shenzhen, the counterfeiting capital of the world.

                  I have to deal with these criminals on a daily basis. I can quote you chapter and verse on how they operate.

                  And bear in mind, that is but a single floor of a high-rise office building, all of the other floors are exactly the same, and this is hardly the only building like it in Shenzhen....let alone China.

                  Take a look at this...
                  In addition, At least $16 billion-worth of goods sold each year inside [China] are counterfeit, according to one conservative estimate.

                  There are several reasons, steeped in Chinese culture and history, for the lack of intellectual property control.

                  The first is the relationship-driven system that governs much of Chinese business. This system calls for allegiance to individuals over state laws. Due to the tradition of providing personal gifts to friends, the line between gifts and bribes is vague.

                  Personal relationships with government officials often offer protection from prosecution, promoting the pandemic of kickbacks that render the legal system ineffective.

                  In addition, many Communist party officials are trying to maintain their prominent positions in society by illegally using their influence to collect money, the new source of status in China.

                  One senior party official stated,
                  Being corrupt is not a big deal. Everybody is corrupt. But you can’t be corrupt and be politically incorrect at the same time. You don’t have to be clean as long as you are loyal to your political protectors above you. Honesty in China will always lose out to piety and loyalty." Source

                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  Second, I am not going to defend these problems for China. China should make more effort to solve them.
                  Thank you for acknowledging that, I really didn't expect you to.

                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  But most countries had/have/will have similar problems in some part of their history.
                  Granted. But we're not talking about other countries here, we're talking about China.

                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  I am not going to say that American is ignorance and I am still assuming that American is innocence although I know that American did lot of technology piracy.
                  Actually America has historically done a lot of technological INNOVATION. But thanks for providing the obligatory "Point the finger at America" line, it just wouldn't be the same without it.

                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  Thank you, I will.


                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  Chinese hate the corruption of its government more than anyone else. But if you have evidence that the corrupted government aids and abets these actions please go to CNN or Fox. That will make great news.
                  Why should I bother going to CNN or Fox? They've already reported on it. "Evidence that the corrupted government aids and abets these actions"? You're joking right? IT'S EVERYWHERE IN CHINA!
                  Click on that link and catch yourself an earful.

                  Originally posted by Zeng_xinren
                  China is a big technology (intellectual property) buyer in the world. EU is the No. 1, Japan is the No. 2 and US is the No. 3 technology seller to China . Please read:
                  You obviously have no idea what intellectual property means, hardly a surprise given China's historical contempt for the very idea of IP. You might want to look it up before continuing to debate this.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ^^

                    First, I would like to apologize for my jumping in this thread and derailing the topic.

                    Second, this is my last post in this thread. If you make future comments to my post, I say sorry in advance for not responding your comments.

                    Third, I would like to thank Ray and TopHatter for your comments and make my last comment below in this thread.


                    Sir. Ray,

                    The totalitarian regime (CCP) also creates nonsense, the "Great Leap Forward", the "Culture Revolution" and others that were against one of the core values of Chinese culture, Moderate (’†—f).


                    Sir. TopHatter,

                    A grand "flea market" indeed. Nice pictures. Thanks.

                    Could you please make a mark on your picture to show the counterfeit semiconductor? I think that you wouldn't tell us that those electric wires are counterfeit semiconductor, right? ^^ Just kidding ^^

                    In fact, from my first response to your comments, you can see that I agree with you about China's counterfeit problem and think that China should do more to solve this problem. I feel shamed for the problem. But it is hard for me to agree with you on generalizing the problem to the morals and ethics of vast majority of Chinese and Chinese culture. At least in my opinion, American did similar thing at sometime of its history and I don't feel that I should generalize American's technology piracy to the morals and ethics of vast majority of American and American culture of that generation. In fact, that generation of American is greatly admired not only by American but also by Chinese and most of the world. I also agree that America has historically done a lot of technological INNOVATION and America is a good model far far ahead of China. China needs to take long long time to learn the great nature of America. I provided that web-link is really not trying to "Point the finger at America" because China doesn't do any better or even worse. I just hope that you can understand that great people could have shortcoming through that example, no need to mention that at least some of those people are slave holders. Despite the shortcoming, they are among the greatest human beings lived on this planet.

                    Please forgive my ignorance; I really don't have much idea about intellectual property. But I once joined a team to process the documents dealing with the production of a new Volkswagen car in China. For every new model year, the joint-venture needs to pay Volkswagen several dozen million dollars for the Brand name (VW) and patents related to the design of the car. When Lenovo bough IBM PC division, a percentage of the price is for Brand name (IBM thinkpad and others) and patents related to the design of the IBM computers. We were told that the money is for buying the technology and the technology including intellectual property, such as brand name and patents. That is how much I know about intellectual property and sorry for the ignorance of a person from a poor third world developing country. Again, I am not going to defend China's violation on intellectual property here. China should do more to solve this problem

                    It seems that you had very bad experience in dealing with some Chinese people or Chinese companies. As a Chinese, I would like to say sorry to you here.
                    I am here for exchanging opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Zeng_xinren
                      I owe you an apology for my tirade and a much longer - and far more polite, this time - response to your own reply.

                      A longer response will unfortunately have to wait for another time but I offer you my sincere apologies right now.

                      I also owe the Members an apology for hijacking this thread. If requested, I will indeed prune off the relevant posts to a new thread.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry, I am eating my promise to make another post here.

                        TopHatter, I don't think that you own me an apology. I can understand your feeling when you see so many counterfeit products "Made in China". If I were an American, I probably would be very angry too.

                        But thanks for your sincerity.
                        I am here for exchanging opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          A grand "flea market" indeed. Nice pictures. Thanks.
                          You are very welcome. I'll be posting dozens more tomorrow.

                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          Could you please make a mark on your picture to show the counterfeit semiconductor? I think that you wouldn't tell us that those electric wires are counterfeit semiconductor, right? ^^ Just kidding ^^
                          A mark is unneccesary. It is enough to merely look at the entire picture.

                          I have not a doubt in my mind that there is not a single legitmate package in that building, a bare handful, if any at all.

                          I say this after 3 years of an unremitting barrage of lying, stonewalling, prevaricating, and obstruction....with few exceptions, from one country only. That is the People's Republic Of China.

                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          In fact, from my first response to your comments, you can see that I agree with you about China's counterfeit problem and think that China should do more to solve this problem. I feel shamed for the problem. But it is hard for me to agree with you on generalizing the problem to the morals and ethics of vast majority of Chinese and Chinese culture.
                          And I thank you for having the honesty to admit that.

                          But unfortunately, the overwhelming evidence is that this problem is a product of two things: The willingness of American and other countries to invest heavily in Chinese production for one reason: Greed. Cheap labor and production equals more profits. The manufacturing countries of the world need to look in the mirror when they ask "How did this problem skyrocket so badly?"

                          The other thing is - as said earlier - Chinese culture and history, not to mention 50+ years of rot and corruption brought on by the Communists.

                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          China needs to take long long time to learn the great nature of America.
                          Quite frankly, China needs to take a long hard look at the overall business ethics and morals of the rest of the world.

                          China seems to think it is some kind of exception to the rule that everybody plays using the same rulebook.

                          For that matter, China does not even allow it's currency to be valued by anybody but China.

                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          I provided that web-link is really not trying to "Point the finger at America" because China doesn't do any better or even worse. I just hope that you can understand that great people could have shortcoming through that example, no need to mention that at least some of those people are slave holders. Despite the shortcoming, they are among the greatest human beings lived on this planet.
                          I am not trying to speak about the Chinese or anything other nationality of 200 years ago. I am speaking about China in the 21st Century. It wishes to be a great and powerful nation, a laudable goal and I have no doubt that it is already well on it's way. Certainly with a ready and able workforce of 800 million people, it will succeed.

                          But it also refuses to behave in a morally upstanding way. Instead, as has been pointed out: This system calls for allegiance to individuals over state laws..

                          If the Chinese are so ready and willing to flout their own laws, why should they bother to heed the laws of other countries?

                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          We were told that the money is for buying the technology and the technology including intellectual property, such as brand name and patents.
                          What that money was for is that it granted to you the LIMITED use of the brand names and patents. You were bound by whatever contracts were signed.

                          It does not give you the right to "go into business for yourself" using VW's technology, name, or patents.

                          If VW tells you that you are able to produce 500,000 peices of a certain type of part, then that is ALL that you are permitted to produce. No more.

                          But Chinese companies feel that there is absolutely nothing wrong with running a "third-shift" and crank out a few hundred thousand more "knock-offs" and sell them at a drastically reduced price, often with a similar or identical logo.

                          That link I provided will tell you exactly how this occurs, and exactly how utterly corrupt the Chinese legal system is when foreign companies attempt to get recourse.


                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          That is how much I know about intellectual property and sorry for the ignorance of a person from a poor third world developing country. Again, I am not going to defend China's violation on intellectual property here. China should do more to solve this problem.
                          I'm sorry but I don't believe that China is poor third world country.
                          Poor in many areas, certainly. But a third world country?








                          Originally posted by Zeng_xinren View Post
                          It seems that you had very bad experience in dealing with some Chinese people or Chinese companies. As a Chinese, I would like to say sorry to you here.
                          I'm afraid that virtually ALL of my experiences with dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Chinese companies have been "bad".
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Counterfeiting In China

                            I had hijacked a different thread with this subject, so I've moved it and the relevant posts to a new thread. It has to do with the rampant counterfeiting of...well, everything in China, the near-total corruption of the Chinese legal system in these matters, and the failure of the Chinese as a culture to recognize what intellectual property rights are.

                            In the interest of full disclosure, I must say that I work for an electronics wholesaler that buys on the open market. We've been stung by China in the past but we've since developed a near-perfect system for doing business in the minefield known as China.

                            If it was up to me, we wouldn't touch China - and now Hong Kong - with a 10-foot pole. The problem is that our customers are oftentimes desperate for the semiconductors they need to finish their production runs and the only source of parts is in China. Thus, we have to deal with the single largest counterfeiting entity on the planet.

                            I don't pretend to think that other countries do not have a role in counterfeiting, far from it. I'm also not ignorant of the fact that manufacturer's have sought to increase their profits - or just remain competitive - by exporting their production centers to China for the cheap labor....thus providing the Chinese with all that they need copy, counterfeit, re-brand and sell as their own, at a fraction of the usual price, the very product they were contracted to make in the first place.

                            The following is an article that reports on a case that demonstrates this problem in it's entirety.

                            Not exactly counterfeit
                            Foreign contractors make more products than they're supposed to then sell the excess out the back door. New Balance found out just how hard it can be to shut down the "third shift."


                            By Roger Parloff, FORTUNE senior writer
                            April 26, 2006: 4:34 PM EDT

                            (FORTUNE Magazine) – Gee, counterfeit products are getting so realistic!

                            Doubtless you've heard some version of that comment in recent years. Well, they are getting more realistic, for two reasons. One you know about, but one you might not.


                            In Shanghai real New Balance shoes are sold alongside Henkees, a lawful knockoff made by a former supplier.


                            The prong of the problem everyone understands is that technological advances in printing, scanning, 3-D modeling, and so on have made copying through reverse-engineering easier and cheaper than ever. And if you ask any brand owner why counterfeits are so convincing these days, that's the answer you'll get.

                            But there's another factor. Now that Western companies are pervasively outsourcing the manufacture of their products to factories overseas, they're entrusting their precious intellectual property - designs, molds, specifications, trade secrets - to hundreds of contractors and subcontractors all over the world. It's extremely hard to police global supply chains, and IP is leaking out through 1,000 cracks.

                            The simplest and most dramatic form of the problem is something that Asia-based investigators jocularly refer to as the "third shift," the "midnight shift," or the "ghost shift." Say a U.S. company orders 20,000 dresses from an overseas factory. The contractor fills the order during its two day shifts but then runs off 10,000 extra at night, possibly using inferior materials. Those he sells out the back door, so to speak, trademark and all.

                            In the case of apparel, says Vincent Volpi, the head of PICA, a brand-protection firm, third-shift products may be "substantially indistinguishable, down to the same thread count."

                            Daniel C.K. Chow, an IP-law professor at Ohio State University, recalls his own former employer, a multinational consumer-brands company he declines to name, having a third-shift problem at a factory in China that produced packaging and labels.

                            The contractor "would sell the night shift to counterfeiters," says Chow. "You'd wind up discovering a counterfeit product in a genuine package."

                            Sometimes even brand owners can't tell whether an unauthorized product is a counterfeit (a product bearing a trademark that its maker never had authority to use) or the result of third-shift activity.
                            The remainder of the article is quite long and can be here
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                              Sharp? That's putting it mildly. Having dealt with Chinese companies for the past 3 years, I can assure you that "sharp" doesn't even begin to cover it.

                              Here in the United States, we don't think much of driving a few miles over the speed limit. Technically it's breaking the law, but even the police won't bother to pull you over for a measly 3 or 4 over.

                              In China, the same attitude prevails over swindling people out of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars by selling them counterfeit goods.

                              I'm not talking about Prada handbags. I'm referring to electronic components that are intended for medical equipment, aircraft, automobiles, and a host of other items that human lives depend on.

                              It's a great big joke to cheat Westerners - especially the stupid Americans - and then brag about it to your friends. The great big joke is that the Chinese government and courts will do little to nothing to stop them.

                              The world's largest counterfeit factory is China. Not IN China, it IS China.

                              Unfortunately, it's hardly just a complete lack of morals and ethics on the part of the vast majority of Chinese, it's also other country's greed that has caused this problem to skyrocket. Chinese labor is cheap and plentiful, and so other companies have exported their know-how, blueprints, machine tools and license to Chinese manufacturers.

                              I'm going to prune these posts off to a new thread, as I don't want to hijack this thread.
                              Gee .. how did the poor westerners feel when they raped China throughout the last two centuries .. ?

                              Now, everyone knows that I'm not a commie defender .. and international law and property rights must be protected, but I don't buy the 'poor westerner' argument.

                              You guys did it too.
                              I rant, therefore I am.

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