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Thread: Va. Congressman fears more Muslims elected

  1. #31
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    I don't think a Moslem is a holy terror.

    It is only when he want a mile when you give him an inch that it becomes a problem.

    So long as anyone blends into general society and does not go out of the way to impose his ideas on the general society, maybe things can work out.

    However, going by the trends in Europe, the demand to impose the alien culture on to the accepted culture is what has made the Islamic question very 'barby'!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  2. #32
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Did not want to create yet another thread on the issue but it is related:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20...nation/1153689
    Keith Ellison and the Jefferson Koran

    Despite a cynical campaign by those who would establish a religious test for holding office in these United States, newly elected Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison will swear his oath of office tomorrow on the Koran.
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    The objections to allowing Ellison, the first Muslim to be elected to Congress, to take the oath as he chooses were so absurd in character and contention that they could easily be dismissed as a sideshow. But it would be dangerous to do so. The fact is that there has for a number of years now been a concerted effort by sincere if misguided religious zealots and conservative political strategists who delight in exploiting fears of diversity to redefine the American experiment as a Christian religious endeavor.

    History does not provide even a soft grounding for this fantasy. The Founders of the country were men and women of the Enlightenment who, while surely imperfect in their thoughts and deeds, wisely sought to burst the chains of what Thomas Jefferson referred to as "monkish ignorance and superstition." They revolted against the divine right of kings, rejected the construct of state-sponsored religion and wrote a Constitution that not only guaranteed freedom of religion but required that: "The Senators and Representatives...and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

    The controversy over Ellison's desire to swear his oath on a Koran, which had been stoked by conservative commentators initially, reached something of a fever pitch when Virginia Congressman Virgil Goode, an otherwise obscure Republican, declared in a letter to a constituent that "When I raise my hand to take the oath on Swearing In Day, I will have the Bible in my other hand. I do not subscribe to using the Qur'an in any way. The Muslim Representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Qur'an."

    Goode made several television appearances during which he pushed this line, even after it was pointed out to him that Ellison was born in the United States and traced his family's roots in this country back at least to 1742.

    Goode left no doubt about his disdain for Islam and for its practioners, declaring that "I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States if we do not adopt the strict immigration policies that I believe are necessary to preserve the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America and to prevent our resources from being swamped. The Ten Commandments and 'In God We Trust' are on the wall in my office. A Muslim student came by the office and asked why I did not have anything on my wall about the Qur'an. My response was clear, 'As long as I have the honor of representing the citizens of the 5th District of Virginia in the United States House of Representatives, The Qur'an is not going to be on the wall of my office.'"

    Predictably, Goode found a forum on Fox News, where he stood by his statements and said, without a hint of irony, that "I wish more people would take a stand and stand up for the principles on which this country was founded."

    What made Goode's ignorance of those founding principles remarkable was the fact that he represents Virginia's Albemarle County, where Thomas Jefferson was born in 1743.

    On Thursday, it will not be Virgil Goode who pays tribute to Jefferson.

    It will be Keith Ellison.

    The new Congressman from Minnesota will declare his loyalty to the Constitution while clutching a copy of the Koran that was once owned by Jefferson. One of many Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist texts that the author of the Declaration of Independence donated to the
    Library of Congress at its founding, the Jefferson Koran has been loaned to Ellison by the rare book and special collections division of the library.

    This is not mere symbolism. Ellison understands the Jeffersonian impulse that underpins the American experiment.

    "When I'm officially sworn in, I will do it the same exact way as every other Congressperson-elect who was sworn in," explains the Representative from Minneapolis. "We will all stand up and in unison lift our hand and swear to uphold that Constitution, and then later, in a private ceremony, of course I'll put my hand on a book that is the basis of my faith, which is Islam, and I think that this is a beauty--this is a wonderful thing for our country because Jewish members will put their hands on the Torah. Mormon members will put their hand on the Book of Mormon. Catholic members will put their hand on the book of their choice--and members that don't want to put their hand on any book are also fully free to do that. That's the American way.... I think the diversity of our country is a great strength. It's a good thing that we have people from all faiths and all cultures to come here."

    Make no mistake, were Jefferson, Madison, George Mason or any of the other Virginians who put their hands to the task of forging an experiment in religious tolerance and liberty asked to choose between Virgil Goode and Keith Ellison, those advocates for a "wall of separation" between church and state would not hesitate to say that it is Ellison who should be sworn in. And Jefferson, who spoke and wrote so extensively about his interest in and respect for Islam, would surely be honored to know that Ellison's hand will rest on the Koran that an enlightened Founder bequeathed not just to the Library of Congress but to America.
    Goode's behavior is so sad, considering what a great tolerant state Virginia is.

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Lol you should hear him talk! Typical... His accent says it all!
    http://www.youtube.com/v/LoIUYoODu3s
    Last edited by Asim Aquil; 04 Jan 07, at 17:58.

  4. #34
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    If the man is a law biding U.S. citizen then allow him to follow his costitutional right of "Pursuit of Happiness" the same as any other citizen. Wether he is Muslim or not. If you dont like him then use the demorcratic process of voting and stop whining.However the Bible is recognized for use in the swearing in process of any politician citizen etc. So he may have to bend as well.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  5. #35
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    From my point of view, Americans have good reason to fear Muslims. It was Muslims who flew passenger airliners into the WTC and Pentagon. It is Muslims who strap bombs around themselves and detonate them in public areas. It is Muslims who have no fear of death. Christians do not blow themselves up and then dance and rejoice in the streets?

    It is not Muslims who have threatened to destroy western civilization? Was it not Muslims who took more than 1200 school children hostage in Beslen, which resulted in over 180 dead children?

    I have a few Muslim friends, and have discussed Islam with them. I know that many Muslims don't believe the same way as the extremists do. However, when one looks at the facts from a North American perspective, it is easy to draw the conclusion that:

    a) Having Muslims running the government is a bad thing
    b) The immigration of Muslims is a bad thing
    c) It is up the the Muslims to educate and give western society reason to change their views, not the other way around. It is they who want in, not the other way around.

    People who do not embrace death, have fears. These fears have been stirred up by events triggered by Muslims over the last 15 years. Western society has reason to fear and therefore, they have reason to protect.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurkon View Post
    From my point of view, Americans have good reason to fear Muslims. It was Muslims who flew passenger airliners into the WTC and Pentagon. It is Muslims who strap bombs around themselves and detonate them in public areas. It is Muslims who have no fear of death. Christians do not blow themselves up and then dance and rejoice in the streets?

    It is not Muslims who have threatened to destroy western civilization? Was it not Muslims who took more than 1200 school children hostage in Beslen, which resulted in over 180 dead children?

    I have a few Muslim friends, and have discussed Islam with them. I know that many Muslims don't believe the same way as the extremists do. However, when one looks at the facts from a North American perspective, it is easy to draw the conclusion that:

    a) Having Muslims running the government is a bad thing
    b) The immigration of Muslims is a bad thing
    c) It is up the the Muslims to educate and give western society reason to change their views, not the other way around. It is they who want in, not the other way around.

    People who do not embrace death, have fears. These fears have been stirred up by events triggered by Muslims over the last 15 years. Western society has reason to fear and therefore, they have reason to protect.
    Alright, let's go through this again, since apparently half the people here can't seem to process things correctly.
    Ok, I'm going to, in the words of a good friend, "break this down Barney style".

    It was Muslims who flew passenger airliners into the WTC and Pentagon.
    Fact.
    It is Muslims who strap bombs around themselves and detonate them in public areas.
    Fact (though I'm sure we can find examples of people who were not muslims who have done the same, if we were to dig around a bit).
    It is Muslims who have no fear of death.
    and teenagers, and psychopaths, and Christians (yeah... they have no reason to fear the wrath of man, oh no, it is "God's" wrath they fear, and to God they must ultimately answer. The problem with this premise is that it is not entirely the case, the same way it isn't entirely the case with Christians. You do have good reason to fear fundamentalist muslims and Christians alike. Some of us like to call it the after effects of "brainwashing".
    Christians do not blow themselves up and then dance and rejoice in the streets?
    No, instead, they form little (and not so little) societies and inflict their ideologies on all.
    It is not Muslims who have threatened to destroy western civilization?
    Wait, you got this one right (by accident). Sure, the same way "democracy" threatens theirs. (Some people just fail to see that the coin has two sides). Besides, neo-cons and the Christian bloc threaten to destroy secular civilization as we know it as well.

    Just because they are forced to use tactics that we don't like because they can't really oppose us any other way, doesn't make "us" any 'better' than them, unless you have some sort of absolute scale and think that 'we' are much more valuable than they are as human beings to begin with.
    However, when one looks at the facts from a North American perspective, it is easy to draw the conclusion that
    whoa, what exactly do you mean by a "North American perspective"? The illogical conclusions that follow from the fear that 'all muslims, by extension, are thus extremist terrorists'?
    a) Having Muslims running the government is a bad thing
    Part of government is certainly not "running" it. I would argue that by your logic, having anybody associated with any religion "running the government" would be a bad thing.
    b) The immigration of Muslims is a bad thing
    Only if we concluded that it was reasonable to extrapolate that 'all' or at least 'many' muslims are terrorists... which we didn't.
    c) It is up the the Muslims to educate and give western society reason to change their views, not the other way around. It is they who want in, not the other way around.
    I was under the impression that they (the terrorists) wanted us out of their lives and country, and that normal people like you and I who happen to be muslims wanted "in", and that an extremely small portion are hostile. Even if there were 10,000 psychotic extremists willing to blow themselves up (we're not counting the ones who cheer when it happens, since there are plenty of cheerleaders for the "regime-change" which is we can equate their hatred for our way of life), that means that perhaps we need to worry about 1/1000 Muslims being a terrorist? C'mon... coexist.

  7. #37
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuddingfoot View Post
    Ok, I'll look into the history of the Islamic religion.... wait... I did that.

    That was a class at the U of MN called: Islam: Religion and Culture.

    Ok, our history, insofar as we are a nation primarily of European ancestry (both philosophical and otherwise) and thus Christian history:
    Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Witchunts, numerous wars in the name of religion, abortion clinic murders, etc.

    Please , Christianity has the same track record. If you wish to expunge the record of Christianity by citing the fact that we are a "secular" nation, you need to take a few lessons from history yourself.

    The actions of a few individuals (proportionately) we call Islamic Fundamentalists does not mean we should expect the same from all Muslims. The same goes for Christianity: the actions of a few individuals we call Christian Fundamentalists does not mean we should expect the same from all Christians.
    I've made this point in a number of other threads here, but very quickly, it goes like this:

    Today, 2007, it is not Xnty that is having problems with sanctioned violence, murder, and oppression - those problems were long ago.

    -dale

  8. #38
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil View Post
    Lol you should hear him talk! Typical... His accent says it all!
    http://www.youtube.com/v/LoIUYoODu3s
    You have a problem with Southern accents?

    -dale

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    You have a problem with Southern accents?

    -dale
    Only when they say mean and horrible things. I would hate it if they said it in any other accent. Just that amongst Muslims in America, typical redneck areas are avoided with extra vigor. The worst is expected out of them. Fair or not, but thats the stereotype. This guy matches that stereotype.

  10. #40
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    It dosent matter how many Muslim politicians we have; the biggest threat will always be the extreme left wing socialists like Nancy Pelosi. One of them can do more damage then 1,000 Muslim politicians combined.

  11. #41
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisF202 View Post
    It dosent matter how many Muslim politicians we have; the biggest threat will always be the extreme left wing socialists like Nancy Pelosi. One of them can do more damage then 1,000 Muslim politicians combined.
    Didn't she also just take oath today?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    I've made this point in a number of other threads here, but very quickly, it goes like this:

    Today, 2007, it is not Xnty that is having problems with sanctioned violence, murder, and oppression - those problems were long ago.

    -dale
    That means we should forget it's legacy (the one that undoubtedly shaped europe and the U.S.) why?

  13. #43
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Pelosi#Abortion

    I skimmed through the issues she stands for. Doesn't sound like the devil from hell to me.

  14. #44
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuddingfoot View Post
    Just because they are forced to use tactics that we don't like because they can't really oppose us any other way, doesn't make "us" any 'better' than them, unless you have some sort of absolute scale and think that 'we' are much more valuable than they are as human beings to begin with.
    Actually, their tactics, like deliberately cutting the living heads off of prisoners, and deliberately killing children, put them beyond hte pale of civilization. SO yeah, we are more valuable than them.

    -dale

  15. #45
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Pelosi#Abortion

    I skimmed through the issues she stands for. Doesn't sound like the devil from hell to me.
    Nope. Not at all. Just very Europeein'.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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