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What would have happened if the US had been one of the allies in 1939?

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  • What would have happened if the US had been one of the allies in 1939?

    Just theorising:

    Would the war have ended prior to 1945 if the US had sent its full military might to support the British and its Commonwealth allies against the Germans and Italians?

    The Lend-Lease agreement (March 1941) was a huge help to the British (and later the Soviets) but would have been even better if significant US forces had been in the ships and aircraft etc.

    Did the intervening years, prior to December 1941, give the US enough time to put its extraordinary manufacturing system into a war footing that may even have meant an early engagement would have been counterproductive? I have read that the US had less than 2,000 aircraft in 1939 but rose to around 80,000 aircraft at its peak.

    Would the holocaust have been as bad, or worse, with an early engagement?

    Would Britain have been one of the Superpowers if the war had ended without the same level of damage to its civillian infrastructure and manpower?

  • #2
    The strong Isolationist tendencies in the US at that time would probably have caused FDR to have have lost the upcoming election.
    Putting an even more Neutralist oriented party in control of the US government, and maybe even putting the kabosh on Lend-Lease
    .
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kipruss
      Just theorising:

      Would the war have ended prior to 1945 if the US had sent its full military might to support the British and its Commonwealth allies against the Germans and Italians?

      The Lend-Lease agreement (March 1941) was a huge help to the British (and later the Soviets) but would have been even better if significant US forces had been in the ships and aircraft etc.

      Did the intervening years, prior to December 1941, give the US enough time to put its extraordinary manufacturing system into a war footing that may even have meant an early engagement would have been counterproductive? I have read that the US had less than 2,000 aircraft in 1939 but rose to around 80,000 aircraft at its peak.

      Would the holocaust have been as bad, or worse, with an early engagement?

      Would Britain have been one of the Superpowers if the war had ended without the same level of damage to its civillian infrastructure and manpower?
      entering the war early would have had disasterouse effects on the US, both politicaly at home, and abroad, the US would have been impotent abroad, completly at the mercy of europe, and imperialism would have reinged free, not to mention a destroyed germany, with no hope of recovery after the US went back into its shell.
      Whoever is unjust let him be unjust still
      Whoever is righteous let him be righteous still
      Whoever is filthy let him be filthy still
      Listen to the words long written down
      When the man comes around- Johnny Cash

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      • #4
        If the Americans entered the war earlier, there may not have been enough time for Russia to advance as far west as it did and MAYBE, we wouldn't have had an East & West Germany afterwards.

        Had the Americans stayed out of the conflict entirely, the Soviet Union would have changed the course of Europe altogether I think....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Static Caster
          If the Americans entered the war earlier, there may not have been enough time for Russia to advance as far west as it did and MAYBE, we wouldn't have had an East & West Germany afterwards.

          Had the Americans stayed out of the conflict entirely, the Soviet Union would have changed the course of Europe altogether I think....
          if the US had gotten involved at the onset, there wouldnt have been a russian front for germany, russia would probably have never gotten involved in the war, or worse yet, they may have supported germany.
          Whoever is unjust let him be unjust still
          Whoever is righteous let him be righteous still
          Whoever is filthy let him be filthy still
          Listen to the words long written down
          When the man comes around- Johnny Cash

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          • #6
            Actually, the turning point was not about American participation but the Sudetenland. Had the French and Brits supported the Czechs, the Wehrmacht would have been wiped from the face of the earth.

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            • #7
              these days there is another "hopeful" who would surrender will in deserts and bring the world to ruin
              _____________________

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
                Actually, the turning point was not about American participation but the Sudetenland. Had the French and Brits supported the Czechs, the Wehrmacht would have been wiped from the face of the earth.
                How could the French and Brits supported the Germans? Did they have any sufficient expedionary forces available at that time?

                If not, that might explain the reasons for Chamberlain's "appeasements". Everybody keeps calling Chamberlain a coward but nobody remembers that he was singly responsible for restarting the British military which was in serious decline. He was the one that made several huge orders to build more warships and planes and started the path to military innovation. Without those things, even Churchill would have a very very tough time standing up to the German war machine.

                The credit for the buildup of the British war machine goes to Chamberlain, not Churchill.

                Remember before the war broke out, the world was in midst of a great depression, and England was not immune to it. To deal with the depression, British was forced to make several cuts in the military budget and have an empire army and navy on the cheap. Chamberlain was the one who changed the direction of that military thinking.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blademaster
                  How could the French and Brits supported the Germans? Did they have any sufficient expedionary forces available at that time?
                  You mean supporting the Czechs? The Wehrmacht would have bled white trying to take the Sudetenland. Unlike the Maginot Line, the Sudetenland fortifications left no room for manouver and the Wehrmacht would have to take those head on. Also instead of a single line, there was actual depth to the Czech defences. The Wehrmacht would be in no position to take on anybody else.

                  Originally posted by Blademaster
                  The credit for the buildup of the British war machine goes to Chamberlain, not Churchill.

                  Remember before the war broke out, the world was in midst of a great depression, and England was not immune to it. To deal with the depression, British was forced to make several cuts in the military budget and have an empire army and navy on the cheap. Chamberlain was the one who changed the direction of that military thinking.
                  The army sufferred and sufferred bad but the Royal Navy remained top notch vis-a-vi everybody else. Also, you have to consider that while the British Army was in decline, so was everybody else. The much vaunted Wehrmacht blitzkreig could not have happenned without the tanks they took/stole from the Czechs.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
                    You mean supporting the Czechs? The Wehrmacht would have bled white trying to take the Sudetenland. Unlike the Maginot Line, the Sudetenland fortifications left no room for manouver and the Wehrmacht would have to take those head on. Also instead of a single line, there was actual depth to the Czech defences. The Wehrmacht would be in no position to take on anybody else.



                    The army sufferred and sufferred bad but the Royal Navy remained top notch vis-a-vi everybody else. Also, you have to consider that while the British Army was in decline, so was everybody else. The much vaunted Wehrmacht blitzkreig could not have happenned without the tanks they took/stole from the Czechs.
                    Sorry my bad, I meant the Czechs. How could the Czech have better tanks than the Germans? I thought Germany had their own tank producing factories?

                    From what I've read of your post, you are implying that Czech had better war materials producing factories than Germany.

                    If the Sudetenland fortications would have bled Germany to blood, how could Germany withstood the Russian fortications for a long period of time?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Blademaster
                      Sorry my bad, I meant the Czechs. How could the Czech have better tanks than the Germans? I thought Germany had their own tank producing factories?

                      From what I've read of your post, you are implying that Czech had better war materials producing factories than Germany.
                      The Czechs had their own Panzer Is and IIs that the Wehrmacht took for their own.

                      Originally posted by Blademaster
                      If the Sudetenland fortications would have bled Germany to blood, how could Germany withstood the Russian fortications for a long period of time?
                      One reason and one reason only, Stalin's purges. Even the famous Field Marshall Zuhkov was freezing his butt in Siberia. On paper, the Red Army was at least on par, if not superior, than the Wehrmacht. However, when you start giving up 2 million prisoners per campaign, someone was obviously humping the dog (and that someone was Stalin).

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                      • #12
                        The german military machine is overrated in the eyes of a lot of laymen. Yes, blitzkrieg was awesome and devestating. But their tanks, rifles & aircraft weren't the killing machines popular belief holds.
                        SWANSEA 'TILL I DIE! - CARN THE CROWS!

                        Rule Britannia, No Surrender

                        Staff Cadet in the Australian Army Reserve.

                        Soli Deo Gloria

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                        • #13
                          Siberia

                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
                          The Czechs had their own Panzer Is and IIs that the Wehrmacht took for their own.



                          One reason and one reason only, Stalin's purges. Even the famous Field Marshall Zuhkov was freezing his butt in Siberia. On paper, the Red Army was at least on par, if not superior, than the Wehrmacht. However, when you start giving up 2 million prisoners per campaign, someone was obviously humping the dog (and that someone was Stalin).
                          The reason why Zhukov was freezing his butt off in Siberia was not political (Internal) but he had just wipped the Japanese invasion of Russia (a little known war this one - didn;t last long and the vaunted Japnaese army and airforce were seriously trashed at this time).

                          regards
                          Phil

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                          • #14
                            FDR, Chamberlain etc

                            Originally posted by donnie
                            entering the war early would have had disasterouse effects on the US, both politicaly at home, and abroad, the US would have been impotent abroad, completly at the mercy of europe, and imperialism would have reinged free, not to mention a destroyed germany, with no hope of recovery after the US went back into its shell.
                            Were all operating under the same pressures - none of the domestic populations wanted to go to war for any reason - Hitlers breach of the Munich accord shattered the DELUSIONs of western peoples and that opened up the political agenda to the politicians that eventually allowed Briatin and France to declare war.

                            A lot of allowances are made to FDR for working around public opinion in the states, but none is given to Chamberlian/Deladier who operated under the same constrictions.

                            A final point on this - if Pearl Harbour had not happened would the US have entered the war at all?

                            regards

                            cheers

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by philipjd
                              Were all operating under the same pressures - none of the domestic populations wanted to go to war for any reason - Hitlers breach of the Munich accord shattered the DELUSIONs of western peoples and that opened up the political agenda to the politicians that eventually allowed Briatin and France to declare war.

                              A lot of allowances are made to FDR for working around public opinion in the states, but none is given to Chamberlian/Deladier who operated under the same constrictions.
                              the problem with compareing the domestic pressure of europe and that of the US is that europe was a world away. and the US already sent thousands of troops to thier death in the family fued of WWI.

                              Originally posted by philipjd
                              A final point on this - if Pearl Harbour had not happened would the US have entered the war at all?
                              i believe we would have had to eventualy. but we were involved in the war from the begining, with the oil embargo on japan to keep them from taking french possesions, and to stop japans agression in china, and lend lease. eventualy this was going to pi$$ them off enough to attack us, if not japan then certainly germany. pobably on the eastern coastline.
                              Whoever is unjust let him be unjust still
                              Whoever is righteous let him be righteous still
                              Whoever is filthy let him be filthy still
                              Listen to the words long written down
                              When the man comes around- Johnny Cash

                              Comment

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