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  • Gunman in Body Armor kills 3

    3 die in shooting at strip club; officers injured
    Gunman walks in wearing body armor, opens fire before killing himself
    Updated: 10:46 a.m. MT Dec 12, 2006
    NEW BEDFORD, Mass. - Three people were fatally shot and several people injured, including two police officers, in a shooting at a strip club early Tuesday morning, authorities said.

    A gunman wearing body armor entered the Foxy Lady at about 2:30 a.m. and opened fire before killing himself, New Bedford police told WSAR radio.

    “At this time, we have three confirmed dead, one on the outside on the sidewalk, one in front of the building and we believe the shooter inside the building is confirmed dead,” Capt. Richard Spirlet said. “We also have two officers that have been shot, their injuries do not appear to be life threatening. We also have a several patients who have sustained gunshot wounds as well.”

    Spirlet said the gunman was armed with a “high-powered rifle” and “semi-automatic weapon,” and that he held some people hostage.

    The police officers were providing a security detail at the club, police said.

    © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    (link)
    So the real question is whether this will be used as the poster child for trying to ban civilian ownership of body armor or not.

  • #2
    I'm more interested in why the police felt the need to provide a permanent(?) security detail at a strip club. Does that sort of thing go on a lot in the US?
    Rule 1: Never trust a Frenchman
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    • #3
      Originally posted by pdf27 View Post
      I'm more interested in why the police felt the need to provide a permanent(?) security detail at a strip club. Does that sort of thing go on a lot in the US?
      A lot of clubs have security for the girls (to keep psychos like this at bay or to walk them to their cars after work). Also, some police officers will moonlight as security guards as a pt job.
      "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

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      • #4
        Originally posted by THL View Post
        A lot of clubs have security for the girls (to keep psychos like this at bay or to walk them to their cars after work). Also, some police officers will moonlight as security guards as a pt job.
        I think it needs to be more regulated; ex. move away from the bouncer image and towards a professional armed well trained image.

        Also, alot of places dont let cops work off duty security in uniform/armed; NYC used to allow it but then a city correction officer (figures, an im so important jail guard) was shot and killed while working security at a club in the Bronx so they ended that gig.

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        • #5
          In my opinion, I don't think that moving towards a more well armed figure it the best ideal. A person can almost walk in anywhere like this and do as he did. Are we to have well armed figures everywhere then? Should we have armed guards for all our schools for example? What's next then? I just don't think we need something like this cascading and 10 years from now, everywhere we walk, there is a armed guard posted. That's a society that has problems. I don't think you can protect against everything all the time.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TheChosenOne View Post
            In my opinion, I don't think that moving towards a more well armed figure it the best ideal. A person can almost walk in anywhere like this and do as he did. Are we to have well armed figures everywhere then? Should we have armed guards for all our schools for example? What's next then? I just don't think we need something like this cascading and 10 years from now, everywhere we walk, there is a armed guard posted. That's a society that has problems. I don't think you can protect against everything all the time.
            Comme ce, comme ca. While on some fronts I agree with the above, such as having armed guards at each junction of the hallway of a school. Is that conductive to learning? Are students learning when they are searched each and everytime they enter school? Hard to say.

            But on the other hand, armed guards may be present in a lot of places but not so obvious. In the book 11 Harrowhouse, the well dressed doorman is also a HtH expert, ready to drop someone. While that is fiction, when I go to a museum and see similar well dressed attendants through out the place, I have to wonder of their capability, what they are carrying under their suits. People tend to give me a wide space, address me with respect, because I suspect it is the way I hold myself, brought forth thru years of HtH training ...... that, and occassionally I might be wearing my police diver tee. I am not currently a cop but it is interesting to watch how some people, even if it is kids skateboarding on the sidewalks ...... suddenly decide to be elsewhere.

            During the holidays, I bought two business suits, had them taylored, so I could wear my shoulder holster. The store had no problem at all fulfilling my request (but big department stores did).

            So, you see, there may be more armed people around than you know about.

            But such occurances doesn't seem to stop people from going out violently. Or does it? Hard to say because one doesn't know about those who decided otherwise, only those who decided to go on with the plan.

            Should civilians be prevented from owning body armor? I would argue no since one may be in a line of work where body armor is advantageous ....... but the company won't pay for it. Incidently, the taylor did ask me if I would be wearing a vest as well.

            Further, here, body armor are like guns or professional books, such as those that show color pictures of homicide victims such as those, perhaps, who have been sexually impaled in the act of murder. If such items are prohibitied from the general public owning them, speaking purely on economics and not on First, Second Amendment or other concerns, then that drives the prices up because there are fewer people buying such items. Drive the price up and it might put it, whatever that may be, out of reach of county sheriff departments and the like.
            ------------------------------------
            ("Those who feel me near, close their blinds and change their minds."--lyrics, Cat People (Putting out the Fire), by David Bowie)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by FOG3 View Post
              So the real question is whether this will be used as the poster child for trying to ban civilian ownership of body armor or not.
              I'm shocked. Didn't this criminal know that it's illegal in Massachusetts to wear body armor during the commission of a crime?
              "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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              • #8
                Heh.

                I think this can be argued easily either way. On one hand, body armor should not be illegal for alreadsy stated reasons. For the sake of clarity, the price should not be driven up for the sake of low budget departments. Also, if someone is crazy enough to shoot up a place, I really doubt they care is they have illegal possesions. If people can get guns on the black market, it would be just as easy, if not easier to get body armor.

                Yet another point is for the paranoid homeowner. Those who always think someone is after them, how much safer would they feel being able to walk around in a bullet proof vest? I realize this represents such a small percent of the population but every vote counts right? Same thing here.

                To argue it the other way, maybe it should be banned? It might make people like this less certain as to whether they want to do this. They might think they are invincible with their body armor, and so will do something as cray as this. But without body armor they feel less secure doing something like shooting up a strip club.

                Personally I think that body armor shouldn't be banned. Some people murder others with forks, should forks be banned? Some people murder others wearing body armor, and while neither is OK, it's no basis for banning anything. If anything ban guns, and there is no way that's happening.
                "you have enemies, good. That means you stood up for something, sometime in your life"

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                • #9
                  Why on earth did he wear body armor, he shot himself at the end.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheChosenOne View Post
                    In my opinion, I don't think that moving towards a more well armed figure it the best ideal. A person can almost walk in anywhere like this and do as he did. Are we to have well armed figures everywhere then? Should we have armed guards for all our schools for example? What's next then? I just don't think we need something like this cascading and 10 years from now, everywhere we walk, there is a armed guard posted. That's a society that has problems. I don't think you can protect against everything all the time.
                    We do actually, ever hear of the Miami-Dade County Public School Police or the LA School Police?

                    IMO every school district should be required to either have their own armed police force or have armed security. What good is unarmed security against armed gang members, school shooters, etc and the real cops take an hour to get there ala Columbine? I cant remember the name of it but I once read a great book about the adventures of a NYC School Safety officer and how tough and difficult their job was because they were (and this remains the case to this day) not allowed to even carry chemical spray or batons much less guns.

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                    • #11
                      You make a good point. However, consider the price and practicality of having essentially a police force for every school!

                      It makes sense for larger schools and colleges. (BC and BU have police forces) But for every school to have a police force seems impratical
                      "you have enemies, good. That means you stood up for something, sometime in your life"

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