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Thread: Elite Units

  1. #31
    Officer of Engineers
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    I do know what a section is but a section is never alone in an attack. The smallest echelon in an attack is always platoon.

    The simple fact is that SOF is ALWAYS outnumbered and outgunned when going against regular infantry. Their only advantage is stealth.

    Rangers are light infantry no matter what their tasking.

  2. #32
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    I know what you mean now

    Got you.
    However SF can cause a lot of trouble if they have the element of surprise when attacking larger infy forces.
    Oh to clarify members of the ARW (Irish army ranger wing/ Fiannagloch) are Special Forces. My question still stands. I take it you mean American rangers?
    they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

  3. #33
    Tamizhanban Senior Contributor Jay's Avatar
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    I think you got the raising date wrong. SFF got raised end of '62 war in Nov or December.
    True, right after the border war with china. It was raised with NE people, specifically to guard the Chinese frontier, but later got changed to SOF.

    Im not sure of the conversion of the para units into dedicated cdo units. But it was before '65.
    Para units (make shift) fought in 65 war with Pakistan. But it was raised as a prper unit only after the war.

    The simple fact is that SOF is ALWAYS outnumbered and outgunned when going against regular infantry. Their only advantage is stealth.
    Colonel,
    I think everyone accepted it. But specifically in India, we use SOF in counter terrorism (Paras/NSG/Marcos) mostly CQB. Small teams hunting a group of heavily armed terrorists in the border areas. I guess thats why "lemontree" said "he begs to differ you".

  4. #34
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    Jay

    Thanx for explaining to OoE on my behalf. Sir, you are right about the cdo units. I checked up and found out that although they existed as para bns since 1941 but they got specialised into cdo units after '65.

    About the SFF, I lear'nt a lot from a regimental officer who had done three tenures with them. It makes me envy him. I wish I had converted to SFF before quiting.

    OoE
    Sir, you are an experienced officer, and are right about the tasks mentioned by you for SF units. However, in India we have been conducting counter-insurgency and anti-terrorist operations since the past 20 years. So we have had to evolve our unit level tactics and training accordingly. However, we keep training for our primary role(against a regular enemy) while we are in our non-operational locations.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARW_cpl
    My question still stands. I take it you mean American rangers?
    No, Rangers to me have a very specific meaning, like mechanized infantry. Rangers are traditionally independent recee-by-force units. The Canadian Northern Ranger Battalion is essentially that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemontree
    However, in India we have been conducting counter-insurgency and anti-terrorist operations since the past 20 years. So we have had to evolve our unit level tactics and training accordingly. However, we keep training for our primary role(against a regular enemy) while we are in our non-operational locations.
    Brain fart on my part. I keep forgetting your army is quite different from mine. Anti-terror and COIN ops are considered police actions, not military, in Canada.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers


    Brain fart on my part. I keep forgetting your army is quite different from mine. Anti-terror and COIN ops are considered police actions, not military, in Canada.

    This is one of the biggest concerns facing the Indian military. Many people in the brass have griped about being forced to do jobs that were termed as "police jobs". But since the military follows the politicians, they had little choice but to follow.

  7. #37
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    well I hate to say it

    Well I hate to say so but in this case you are wrong Irish rangers are special forces and are Irelands main hostage rescue, counter insurgency, terrorist interdiction and specialist team. The ARW does not fall under the category of light infantry were that the case our team would not have scored 3rd place at the world special forces wargames in Germany a year or 2 ago. It was all CQB and hostage rescue scenarios so all them para police teams had the advantage given that that is all they do and we still got 3rd place (note it was only our 2nd time at that event). Now you are probably right in every other case but the ARW is special forces (highly trained special forces) not just light infantry.
    they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

  8. #38
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    ARW

    The world over the Irish are respected for their martial sprit. They filled the ranks of previous British units, most of US police (at least in NYC) is Irish (I am told). With the excellent scotch you make, you are special anyway.

  9. #39
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    aww thanks

    thanks . Oh and you india's performed quite well in the British forces when they were there (you's made excellent artillery men).
    they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

  10. #40
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    ARW
    Yes good gunners, infantrymen, cavalrymen, sappers you name it, we did it in the old british raj Indian army. A lot of Irishmen settled in India too, though the generations after them have migrated to UK and Australia.

    The Battles in Burma was faught mainly by the Indian units, North Africa, Italy and Europe.

  11. #41
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    true

    If I'm not wrong you's and the Anzacs suffered extremely heavy casualties at Monte Casino Italy.
    they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

  12. #42
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARW_cpl
    Well I hate to say so but in this case you are wrong Irish rangers are special forces and are Irelands main hostage rescue, counter insurgency, terrorist interdiction and specialist team. The ARW does not fall under the category of light infantry were that the case our team would not have scored 3rd place at the world special forces wargames in Germany a year or 2 ago. It was all CQB and hostage rescue scenarios so all them para police teams had the advantage given that that is all they do and we still got 3rd place (note it was only our 2nd time at that event). Now you are probably right in every other case but the ARW is special forces (highly trained special forces) not just light infantry.
    I have no problem being wrong. These days, the original meanings have been all twisted out of place that it really doesn't matter any more. Just that when you say ranger, grenadier, dragoon, guardsmen, beefeaters, I get a very specific image with the history behind those regiments.

  13. #43
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    oh right

    Thats what your talking about. Now I know what you mean its just I thought you were comparing us as being on the same level as the U.S. rangers which as you can imagine didnt impress me.
    they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARW_cpl
    If I'm not wrong you's and the Anzacs suffered extremely heavy casualties at Monte Casino Italy.

    You are right it was the 4th Infantry Division, aka Red Eagel Division (its formation sign is a red eagel on black background). They are quite famous within military history circles. My father too served in it during the 1971 war against Pakistan.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree
    ARW
    Yes good gunners, infantrymen, cavalrymen, sappers you name it, we did it in the old british raj Indian army. A lot of Irishmen settled in India too, though the generations after them have migrated to UK and Australia.

    The Battles in Burma was faught mainly by the Indian units, North Africa, Italy and Europe.
    I'm biting my tongue here.
    I am one of the first to except (and laud) the outstanding contribution of Indian units in BOTH WWI & II. You go a liitle far, however. Please refrain from excessive revisionism. "Mainly"?
    Where's the bloody gin? An army marches on its liver, not its ruddy stomach.

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