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"Thank God for the Atom Bomb"

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  • #46
    The Japanese were the Bad Guys. They did very Bad Things. They are lucky they weren't exterminated as a people. Using a couple of small nukes on them was the best option and the best decision in the context of 1945 and afterward.

    -dale

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    • #47
      less emotive?

      Having only scanned all before, I'd like to remind all of the demonstrative ethic.

      If indeed the appellation can be justified as such.

      The US exhibited a will to kill en-masse.

      That ended the Soviet steam-roller.:)
      Where's the bloody gin? An army marches on its liver, not its ruddy stomach.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
        Back then you guys had to since they had an equal amount of weaponry. Now that they've lagged far behind you guys scrapped it too.

        Because only you want to keep a second strike capability.

        What if the Middle Easterners don't want to give Israel a retaliatory option. Launch multiple bombs, get done with Israel, none of our countrymen died. Only Israelis, whats so bad about that?
        You ask whether genocide "so bad"? Seriously?

        Also, while the ABM and SALT were signed at a time of near numerical partiy for the Soviets with the US, the US still had a much greater capability based on MIRVs, sea-based missiles, and accuracy. Thus, there was not capability in capacity.
        "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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        • #49
          For anyone to reply to, but especially for those who voted "no." If the US had not used the A bomb on Japan, do you think that this would have increased the chances of an A bomb, or maybe even a H bomb, being used, and if so, when, where, and by whom?
          "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
            Get your sniper rifle back first.
            It's back. :)

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
              To be trustable it should give up its nuclear weapons then. God knows how many ICBMs it has, it can probably nuke all Muslim countries.

              It attacked Lebanon and pulverized it to gypsum and bone... over 2 soldiers. Israel is a very aggressive nation of its own sort. It doesn't need much of a provocation to go postal.
              Are you an idiot? Two of their citizens were flat out kidnapped in the dead of night.

              You're effing A right they pulverized them, and they're lucky the Jews stopped when they did due to political pressure. You people are your own worst enemies with such a thought process as you (still) display.

              I can tell you right now that if you kidnapped two of my family members and i found out who you were, i'd start to kill everyone you know, one at a time, until you gave them back.

              No cops, no 9-11. Just a target list with your loved ones names on it.
              Last edited by Bill; 05 Dec 06,, 08:11.

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              • #52
                What if a crazy mentally challenged guy in my family kills someone in your family? And you've proven that for that mentally challenged dude's crime you'd kill me and my family.

                Shouldn't in that case I make arrangements for you to start with?

                That's essentially similar to your reasoning to use the A-bomb! Iran can use the same reasoning.

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                • #53
                  Asim... I don't think anybody but me has made this point, and I think it's been missed.

                  Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government.

                  The Lebanese government's views on Hezbollah's military wing is that it is a legitimate resistance organization, and also condones its actions.

                  Hezbollah, a part of the Lebanese government, also keeps weapon stores and bases its fighters in civilian areas, with the approval and condoning of the Lebanese government as a whole, as well as the vast majority of all segments of Lebanon's population.

                  Hezbollah attacked Israeli military positions in conjunction with the kidnapping two Israeli soldiers, therefore, by extension, Lebanon attacked Israeli military positions and kidnapped two Israeli soliders. Clearly a casus belli.

                  Let's debate this point instead of bringing up hypothetical "what-if" scenarios. These aren't some crazy, deranged individuals. Hezbollah is a sophisticated, well-funded and supplied military and political organization with a broad level of support in Lebanon and the Middle East.

                  And everybody, let's try to keep it civil in here.
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                  • #54
                    My answer was a Yes.

                    Why?

                    Because it stopped a big war, and where a few million were killed what diffrence would it make to have another few hundred thousand dead?

                    Atleast it stopped that war!
                    "To every man upon this earth, Death cometh soon or late;
                    And how can a man die better; Than facing fearful odds,
                    For the ashes of his father; And the temples of his gods."

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                      Asim... I don't think anybody but me has made this point, and I think it's been missed.

                      Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government.

                      The Lebanese government's views on Hezbollah's military wing is that it is a legitimate resistance organization, and also condones its actions.

                      Hezbollah, a part of the Lebanese government, also keeps weapon stores and bases its fighters in civilian areas, with the approval and condoning of the Lebanese government as a whole, as well as the vast majority of all segments of Lebanon's population.

                      Hezbollah attacked Israeli military positions in conjunction with the kidnapping two Israeli soldiers, therefore, by extension, Lebanon attacked Israeli military positions and kidnapped two Israeli soliders. Clearly a casus belli.

                      Let's debate this point instead of bringing up hypothetical "what-if" scenarios. These aren't some crazy, deranged individuals. Hezbollah is a sophisticated, well-funded and supplied military and political organization with a broad level of support in Lebanon and the Middle East.

                      And everybody, let's try to keep it civil in here.
                      CORRECT. And if a government uses those kinds of policy tools, it must be attacked and punished. To tolerate an outrage is to abet another one, probably more outrageous.

                      Do you know why violations of national territorial integrity is usually met with lethal force (or at least the threat of it), even when it's not absolutely necessary? Because to fail to defend to the absolute limit that which you're responsible for is to cede that territory to the trespassor. It simply cannot be 'let go', and Hezbollah - as a matter of chosen state policy, mind you - went much, much farther than that - they kidnapped and killed Israeli troops, with absolutely NO provocation.

                      It had to be answered. Too bad it was answered so ineffectually; THAT is the real shame of it all.

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                      • #56
                        The US shouldn't have dropped the bombs.

                        We really should have systematically torched every single Japanese city to prepare for the invasion. Keep it up for a few months to weaken their defense first. Their inter island trasport was all but destroyed or stopped. We make sure these people have no structures left and no food to eat. Then we get ashore to set up some nice meat grinders and wait for the inevitable banzai charge by bamboo stick wielding civilians.

                        Yeah we might suffer some casualties. Yeah a few million more Japanese might die. But hey, we wouldn't have to listen to some anti-nuke anti-war leftist hippie know-it-all b!itch about the bomb.
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bluesman View Post
                          It had to be answered. Too bad it was answered so ineffectually; THAT is the real shame of it all.
                          As an aside as I haven't been keeping abreast of this, have any of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers or their bodies been returned by Hizbollah or Hamas?
                          In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                          Leibniz

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                            The US shouldn't have dropped the bombs.

                            We really should have systematically torched every single Japanese city to prepare for the invasion. Keep it up for a few months to weaken their defense first. Their inter island trasport was all but destroyed or stopped. We make sure these people have no structures left and no food to eat. Then we get ashore to set up some nice meat grinders and wait for the inevitable banzai charge by bamboo stick wielding civilians.

                            Yeah we might suffer some casualties. Yeah a few million more Japanese might die. But hey, we wouldn't have to listen to some anti-nuke anti-war leftist hippie know-it-all b!itch about the bomb.
                            Oh, and you forgot this part: the survivors of all that non-nuclear horror gets 45 years' worth of face-stomping, jackbooted authoritarianism from those kind-hearted Soviets, who, not missing the opportunity for a li'l extra seaside acreage, were coming to pick over the corpse, like they did when the Nazis were their buddies and they helped themselves to a big old sweet slice of Poland.

                            All-in-all, the bombs were beneficial, not just to us, but to the Japanese, as well (although, really, who gives a good goddam' about the militaristic swine that were all for the war when it was just Nanking and Pearl Harbor and enemy POWs that were getting smoked?). Ask the Kurile Island residents - the guys who DID get the secret police treatment from the Soviets - whether they think maybe we could've dropped them thangs a few weeks earlier, and saved 'em some quality time with the unwanted houseguests that overstayed their welcome just a tad.
                            Last edited by Bluesman; 05 Dec 06,, 23:25.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by parihaka View Post
                              As an aside as I haven't been keeping abreast of this, have any of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers or their bodies been returned by Hizbollah or Hamas?
                              No. And that was the stated objective: to get 'em back. Well, they failed, and they're still failing today.

                              As Napoleon once said, 'If you start out to take Vienna, TAKE VIENNA.'

                              Fauilure. Ignominy. Defeat.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Bluesman View Post
                                Oh, and you forgot this part: the survivors of all that non-nuclear horror gets 45 years' worth of face-stomping, jackbooted authoritarianism from those kind-hearted Soviets, who, not missing the opportunity for a li'l extra seaside acreage, were coming to pick over the corpse, like they did when the Nazis were their buddies and they helped themselves to a big old sweet slice of Poland.

                                All-in-all, the bombs were beneficial, not just to us, but to the Japanese, as well (although, really, who gives a good goddam' about the militaristic swine that were all for the war when it was just Nanking and Pearl Harbor and enemy POWs that were getting smoked?). Ask the Kurile Island residents - the guys who DID get the secret police treatment from the Soviets - whether they think maybe we could've dropped them thangs a few weeks earlier, and saved 'em some quality time with the unwanted houseguests that overstayed their welcome just a tad.
                                Thanks for bringing that up. That's why I mentioned the Soviets in my first post. Stalin already had the Red Army in striking distance of Hokkaido. The last thing Japan, or the US wanted was Tojo to surrender to Stalin.

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