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What is hidden behind "Turkish" attempt to intimidate Christian Pope Benedict ?

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  • What is hidden behind "Turkish" attempt to intimidate Christian Pope Benedict ?

    (A Friend's text, but Topical)

    -------------------------
    What is hidden behind "Turkish" attempt to intimidate Christian Pope Benedict ?
    --------------------------

    (Hasty Note).


    - What we can all see even at the Internet, looks bad, very bad.
    (See below).

    Such provocative gross insults, open threats, (neverseen anywhere else in the World !), attempts to intimidate (and exploit it afterwards to get concessions), cannot but have dangerously Undemocratic aims.

    Benedictus, his close entourage and all his real Friends, should be also aware of something that many converging Facts have shown recently :

    - Behind controversial and undemocratic Turkish State's wrongdoings often looms a Transnational Network with interests in unethical and dangerous BioGenetic Manipulation on Embryos and on Humans in general.

    History has shown that those who stand for, or against this bigger issue, where all Humankind is at stake, played a role during the tragedy of late Pope John-Paul II's death (which occured at a crucial moment for BioEthics at International and Regional levels), as well as during his own Election, from Cardinal Ratzinger to Pope Benedictus XVI in 2005.

    The Main Point here and now, in 2006, seems to be that,

    Christian Pope Benedictus, well known for his friendly and close cooperation with late Pope John-Paul II, as well as for his strong Ethical stance on Human Values, added to Visionary aims towards reunification of Christians, etc.,

    should be well protected in his SAFETY, IF he is led to go on to this controversial trip to Turkey.


    But not only that : Substantial issues appear inter-linked, at the same moment :

    Benedict's trip was Initially to meet Christian Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomeus, as a symbolic step towards reUnification of Christians. (Even if the Autonomy of National Churches make some of them more important, and FREE to chose a strong stance : Something virtually impossible for anyone submitted to the millenary Constantinople's - changed by the Turks in "Istanbul" - subordination to Ankara's authorities).

    But, after recent Turkish a.o. Pressure, Threats, Distortions, gross Insults, and even veiled or open Threats (during last months, and Now), another, related, obvious Risk are also attempts to INTIMIDATE, Mislead, oblige to change Agenda, and push to a slipery slope leaning towards imposing some Undemocratic and/or unethical; wrong steps, on some Key issues of Major Importance.

    It all looks as if some wrongdoers searched to Exploit Intimidation in order to push at Dangerous, slipery Concessions.

    => All real Friends and close Assistants, as well as a spontaneous, conscious Popular support Worldwide, should help Christian Pope Benedict to stand Firm and Strong, overcome what appears to be a Sly Trap in Turkey, avoid or dissipate any Misleading attempts to Deviate, and Focus on realizing his main, most important Objectives, for the benefit of all honest and faithful people, Christians and even Humankind.
    ___________________________

    At any case, the obviously worrying Facts surrounding this Dangerous and Slippery Turkish visit are clearly without any Precedent in any Other part of the World !

    Woever might have orchestrated this obvious attempt to Intimidate, and Exploit it for Manipulating People at the service of Dark Interests, should be unmasked and fail in their Evil aims :




























    (A Turkish man, hidden behind a woman, arbors : "Go Home, Pope !").





    ("AP - Sun Nov 26, 8:02 AM ET
    A Turkish woman, wearing a headband that reads:"...let the pope not come!' attends an anti-pope rally in Istanbul, Turkey, Sunday, Nov. 26, 2006. Thousands of Turks gathered ..")
    ____________________________________

    [i] << ...No one expects a quiet visit for Benedict. There have already been protests, the largest of which was Sunday, when an estimated 25,000 Turks denounced Benedict as an enemy of Islam.

    * The rally was in Istanbul, the ancient Christian capital of Constantinople where the pope plans to meet the spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I.

    * On Wednesday, about 40 members of a Turkish nationalist party occupied Istanbul's famous Haghia Sophia — a former Byzantine church and mosque — and chanted slogans against the pope.

    * Banners unfurled in Istanbul earlier this week depicted Bartholomew and Benedict as a two-headed snake. (sic !)

    * "He's coming to advance the ambitions of the Christian world. I don't want him to come," said Sadik Kar, a 43-year-old computer salesman, after prayers at an Istanbul mosque."

    "...He's expected to draw attention to the treatment of Christian minorities in the Islamic world, including the vestige of the once-thriving Greek Orthodox community in Turkey. Earlier this month, an EU progress report on Turkey's membership bid urged more steps to boost rights of non-Muslim religious groups.

    Benedict's visit also will revive memories of an Italian priest, the Rev. Andrea Santoro, who was killed by a teenage gunman in his church on Turkey's Black Sea coast in February. The slaying came amid widespread protests over cartoons depicting Muhammad that were first published by a Danish newspaper. "

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/...lamic_outreach
    ----------------
    <<TURKEY: SALES OF POPE MURDER BOOK SOAR AHEAD OF BENEDICT XVI'S VISIT

    Istanbul, 23 Nov. (AKI) - Sales of a controversial Turkish novel on a conspiracy to kill Pope Benedict XVI are on the rise ahead of the pontiff's historical visit to Turkey beginning next Wednesday - his first to an overwhelmingly Muslim nation.
    .....
    Yuvel Kaya's book, which features Benedict XVI in front of a burning cross with a bearded gunman aiming a rocket launcher at him, is on sale at major Turkish bookstores such as D&R, Kabalci, Pandora.

    Despite the absence of any promotional campaign - no billboards, posters or pamphlets at bookstores - sales are rapidly picking up, according to Lale Yilmaz from Kabalci, one the country's biggest book stores. .....
    "More copies of the book have been bought over the last 10 days than any other time," Zeynep Yaman an employee with Alfa Dagitim, one of the six companies distributing the books, told AKI.

    To date some 10,000 copies of the book have been sold, ...for Turkey, "in its category, more than average," Yaman said.
    .....
    On Wednesday .... a protest against Benedict XVI by a group of ultra-nationalist Turks in Istanbul's symbolic Hagia Sophia. An ancient Eastern Orthodox Church, the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque by the Ottoman Turks after they conquered Constantinople. ....

    In February a Muslim teenage boy shot dead an Italian Roman Catholic priest in the northern city of Trabzon. The killing which appeared to be religiously motivated took place at the height of worldwide protests by Muslims againt cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed published in European newspapers.>>

    http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_En...362690282&par=
    ----------------------------------
    "Anti-Benedict incident ..."

    " Ibrahim Ak delivered ... fired a pistol outside the Italian consulate in Istanbul and shouted that he wanted to strangle the pope with his bare hands.

    "God willing, this will be a spark, a starter … God willing, he will not come. If he comes, he will see what will happen to him," the 26-year-old Turk said ..."

    http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/news/157672.php
    ________________

    "FEAR OVER POPE VISIT TO TURKEY"

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/11262006...worldnews_.htm

    "Pope's Turkey trot danger "

    "When Pope Benedict visits Turkey on Tuesday, he might want to stay out of the bookstores.

    The cover of the country's best-selling novel shows him in front of a burning cross with a bearded man aiming a rocket launcher at him. The subtitle: "Who will kill the Pope in Istanbul?"

    It's just a potboiler about an Opus Dei conspiracy, but given the passions Benedict ignited in September with his comments about Islam, his first visit to a predominantly Muslim country as Pope is guaranteed to be tense. And the book has some people worried.

    The Vatican's Istanbul envoy, Georges Marovitch, told reporters he was concerned "that some abnormal types may read the book and get ideas." "

    "No one has forgotten that the last person to shoot a Pope was a Turk. Indeed, Mehmet Ali Agca, who seriously wounded Pope John Paul II in 1981, warned Benedict from prison to stay away. "Your life is in danger. You absolutely must not come to Turkey," he wrote in a letter published in Italy."


    "The Pope's four-day visit was originally meant to improve relations between the Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. But the import of the trip was transformed ...onto the front lines of the growing clash of civilizations between Islam and the West."

    "...churches were set aflame and a nun was murdered"

    "Benedict's first stop is the shrine of Kemal Ataturk"

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_r...p-399272c.html
    ----------------------------------

    "Thousands rally in Istanbul against papal visit"

    "The demonstration, organized by the Islamist Felicity Party (SP) ..entitled entitled "The pope is not welcome","

    ""You must first apologize ....and then come to these sacred lands," SP leader Recai Kutan told the rally,

    calling Benedict XVI "a representative of grudge and hatred"
    ....
    ... Others said: "Ignorant pope, read your own history!" and "Pope, go home!"

    .... Some waved ...Chechen flags."

    "The rally highlighted another sensitive point the pope's program here has touched -- his planned visit to Hagia Sophia, a sixth century Byzantine church converted to a mosque in 1453, when the Ottomans conquered Istanbul, then called Constantinople. ...

    "Opponents say the pope's planned visit Thursday to the building,...is an indication of Christian ambitions to reclaim it as a church."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061126...o_061126145827
    ------------------------------

    <<"Don't make a mistake Pope, don't try our patience," the men chanted, holding up a Turkish flag and a banner identifying them as being from an Istanbul branch of the "Alperen Ocaklari" (Alperen Association), an ultra-nationalist and Islamist group.

    The group is considered to be an offshoot of the "Grey Wolves," a Turkish right-wing militant group dating back to the 1970s. The man who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II, Mehmet Ali Agca, was a member of the "Grey Wolves." >>

    <<Pope Benedict's trip will include a visit to Aya Sofya.

    "Controversy surrounds the museum, originally the Byzantine Empire's Hagia Sophia church, which is regarded by many as one of the greatest buildings in the world.

    It was converted into a mosque when the Ottomans conquered the city in 1453 and became a museum in 1935. Turkish nationalists regularly voice anger at what they say are attempts to turn it back into a church."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061122/...e_protest_dc_1
    ---------------
    "Turks whip up storm of disapproval over Pope's Istanbul visit "

    "Pope Benedict was given another warning yesterday of what lies ahead for him in Turkey when more than 20,000 people demonstrated against his coming visit in central Istanbul and urged him to stay at home. "

    "The demonstration, ... was the latest in a series of protests against the visit, which begins in Ankara tomorrow.

    "First a man fired a gun outside the Italian consulate in Istanbul and yelled that he wanted to strangle the Pope."

    " Last week, members of the so-called Grey Wolves, the Nationalist Movement Party to which Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turk who tried to assassinate Benedict's predecessor in 1981, belongs, invaded Hagia Sophia, the ancient cathedral-turned-mosque-turned museum in Istanbul,...in protest."

    "In a last-minute change to the schedule, the Vatican announced that as well as visiting Hagia Sophia, the Pope will also call in on the Blue Mosque..."

    "HAGIA SOPHIA

    The most delicate moment of the visit is on Thursday, when he goes to the ancient church, now a museum, which is regarded as one of the greatest buildings in the world. Many nationalists and Islamists will be watching keenly: if the Pope prays here (which is forbidden), it will confirm their grimmest suspicions about his desire to rebuild the Byzantine empire. "

    http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2018690.ece
    -------------------------------

    "....Press Wonders if Pope will Pray at Hagia Sophia "

    "Although the stated main goal of the four-day trip was to fortify relations between the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Christians, the visit gained another dimension in September .."

    The Guardian capitalized on another dimension of the trip, writing that the pope’s visit to Hagia Sophia, “one of the most sacred sites in Christendom,” would be “the most delicate moment” of the trip.

    The paper asked, “Will the pontiff pray at Hagia Sophia?” According to the

    "The eight minutes he is to spend in the cavernous St Sophia's on Thursday afternoon will be watched and weighed for signals of the Vatican's true intent toward Turkey ....The risk is that Benedict will send Turkey's Muslims ....into paroxysms of fury if there is any perception that the pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian centre that fell to the Muslims in 1453 when Byzantine Constantinople became Ottoman Istanbul,” the Guardian wrote.

    http://www.zaman.com/?bl=internation...61126&hn=38680
    ---------------------

    "Thousands of Islamist Turks Protest Pope's Visit to Istanbul

    Nov. 26 (Bloomberg) -- About 20,000 Turks took part in a protest against Pope Benedict XVI's visit this week, accusing him ....

    Protesters chanted ``Don't come, Insidious Pope'' ....
    in a central square in Istanbul, .....


    "``We are the grandchildren of the conquerors (sic !),
    and it is our historical duty to tell the pope not to come,''
    said Necmettin Erbakan, Turkey's first Islamist prime minister ...in 1998. He spoke to the crowd via a satellite link-up.

    "...Nobody who speaks such erroneous and ugly words would dare to come,'' said Erbakan, whose Islamist Felicity Party organized the demonstration. Police estimated the crowd at 20,000. "

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...E6s&refer=home
    --------------------------

    <<Turks denounce pope's pilgrimage
    20,000 at rally decry visit as slap at Islam over earlier remarks

    Monday, November 27, 2006

    (11-27) 04:00 PST Istanbul -- In the largest protest yet against the impending arrival here of Pope Benedict XVI, more than 20,000 Turks filled a town square Sunday to denounce the visit as an affront to Islam.

    "....It is part of a devilish plan to prevent the tilt toward Islam," said Recai Kutan, the head of the Islamist Felicity Party, which organized the event.

    ....vocal groups of hard-line nationalists and radical Islamists have been protesting the visit.

    This is by far the most problematic travel in Benedict's 19-month-old papacy.

    His primary purpose is to reach out to Istanbul-based Orthodox Christians, who split from the Roman Catholic Church 1,000 years ago. But especially after the speech in Regensburg, Germany, the trip also is meant to improve relations with Muslims.

    In that speech at the university where he once taught,..... the general message ... was that faith must be based on reason and not violence.

    The Vatican has made clear that the pope is traveling to Turkey chiefly to meet the leader of the world's Orthodox Christians, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, an ethnic Greek.

    Although he is a Turkish citizen and has lobbied hard for Turkey's membership in the European Union,
    Bartholomew is mistrusted by many in Istanbul ...."

    Wary of the public mood, Turkey's moderate Islamic-led government has shied away from according the pope the level of hospitality customary for visiting heads of state. Many Cabinet ministers, including Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, will be out of town when he arrives.
    .......
    + Benedict, in an effort to placate his Turkish hosts, agreed to meet with the top official in charge of the country's religious affairs at the official's Ankara headquarters.

    + Sunday, the Vatican announced the last-minute addition to the pope's schedule of a stop at Istanbul's landmark 17th century Blue Mosque.

    + Also Sunday, the Turkish news agency Anatolia quoted Benedict's spokesman as saying the Vatican does not oppose Turkey joining the EU.

    Benedict, before becoming pope, said he opposed Turkey's inclusion in the EU because its Muslim character positioned it "in permanent contrast to Europe." >>
    .....
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news
    --------------
    (etc).. [i]

    ==========================

    PART 2

    (../..) .....

    <<"Don't make a mistake Pope, don't try our patience," the men chanted, holding up a Turkish flag and a banner identifying them as being from an Istanbul branch of the "Alperen Ocaklari" (Alperen Association), an ultra-nationalist and Islamist group.

    The group is considered to be an offshoot of the "Grey Wolves," a Turkish right-wing militant group dating back to the 1970s. The man who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II, Mehmet Ali Agca, was a member of the "Grey Wolves." >>

    <<Pope Benedict's trip will include a visit to Aya Sofya.

    "Controversy surrounds the museum, originally the Byzantine Empire's Hagia Sophia church, which is regarded by many as one of the greatest buildings in the world.

    It was converted into a mosque when the Ottomans conquered the city in 1453 and became a museum in 1935. Turkish nationalists regularly voice anger at what they say are attempts to turn it back into a church."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061122/...e_protest_dc_1
    ---------------
    "Turks whip up storm of disapproval over Pope's Istanbul visit "

    "Pope Benedict was given another warning yesterday of what lies ahead for him in Turkey when more than 20,000 people demonstrated against his coming visit in central Istanbul and urged him to stay at home. "

    "The demonstration, ... was the latest in a series of protests against the visit, which begins in Ankara tomorrow.

    "First a man fired a gun outside the Italian consulate in Istanbul and yelled that he wanted to strangle the Pope."

    " Last week, members of the so-called Grey Wolves, the Nationalist Movement Party to which Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turk who tried to assassinate Benedict's predecessor in 1981, belongs, invaded Hagia Sophia, the ancient cathedral-turned-mosque-turned museum in Istanbul,...in protest."

    "In a last-minute change to the schedule, the Vatican announced that as well as visiting Hagia Sophia, the Pope will also call in on the Blue Mosque..."

    "HAGIA SOPHIA

    The most delicate moment of the visit is on Thursday, when he goes to the ancient church, now a museum, which is regarded as one of the greatest buildings in the world. Many nationalists and Islamists will be watching keenly: if the Pope prays here (which is forbidden), it will confirm their grimmest suspicions about his desire to rebuild the Byzantine empire. "

    http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2018690.ece
    -------------------------------

    "....Press Wonders if Pope will Pray at Hagia Sophia "

    "Although the stated main goal of the four-day trip was to fortify relations between the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Christians, the visit gained another dimension in September .."

    The Guardian capitalized on another dimension of the trip, writing that the pope’s visit to Hagia Sophia, “one of the most sacred sites in Christendom,” would be “the most delicate moment” of the trip.

    The paper asked, “Will the pontiff pray at Hagia Sophia?” According to the

    "The eight minutes he is to spend in the cavernous St Sophia's on Thursday afternoon will be watched and weighed for signals of the Vatican's true intent toward Turkey ....The risk is that Benedict will send Turkey's Muslims ....into paroxysms of fury if there is any perception that the pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian centre that fell to the Muslims in 1453 when Byzantine Constantinople became Ottoman Istanbul,” the Guardian wrote.

    http://www.zaman.com/?bl=internation...61126&hn=38680
    ---------------------

    "Thousands of Islamist Turks Protest Pope's Visit to Istanbul

    Nov. 26 (Bloomberg) -- About 20,000 Turks took part in a protest against Pope Benedict XVI's visit this week, accusing him ....

    Protesters chanted ``Don't come, Insidious Pope'' ....
    in a central square in Istanbul, .....


    "``We are the grandchildren of the conquerors (sic !),
    and it is our historical duty to tell the pope not to come,''
    said Necmettin Erbakan, Turkey's first Islamist prime minister ...in 1998. He spoke to the crowd via a satellite link-up.

    "...Nobody who speaks such erroneous and ugly words would dare to come,'' said Erbakan, whose Islamist Felicity Party organized the demonstration. Police estimated the crowd at 20,000. "

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...E6s&refer=home
    --------------------------

    <<Turks denounce pope's pilgrimage
    20,000 at rally decry visit as slap at Islam over earlier remarks

    Monday, November 27, 2006

    (11-27) 04:00 PST Istanbul -- In the largest protest yet against the impending arrival here of Pope Benedict XVI, more than 20,000 Turks filled a town square Sunday to denounce the visit as an affront to Islam.

    "....It is part of a devilish plan to prevent the tilt toward Islam," said Recai Kutan, the head of the Islamist Felicity Party, which organized the event.

    ....vocal groups of hard-line nationalists and radical Islamists have been protesting the visit.

    This is by far the most problematic travel in Benedict's 19-month-old papacy.

    His primary purpose is to reach out to Istanbul-based Orthodox Christians, who split from the Roman Catholic Church 1,000 years ago. But especially after the speech in Regensburg, Germany, the trip also is meant to improve relations with Muslims.

    In that speech at the university where he once taught,..... the general message ... was that faith must be based on reason and not violence.

    The Vatican has made clear that the pope is traveling to Turkey chiefly to meet the leader of the world's Orthodox Christians, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, an ethnic Greek.

    Although he is a Turkish citizen and has lobbied hard for Turkey's membership in the European Union,
    Bartholomew is mistrusted by many in Istanbul ...."

    Wary of the public mood, Turkey's moderate Islamic-led government has shied away from according the pope the level of hospitality customary for visiting heads of state. Many Cabinet ministers, including Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, will be out of town when he arrives.
    .......
    + Benedict, in an effort to placate his Turkish hosts, agreed to meet with the top official in charge of the country's religious affairs at the official's Ankara headquarters.

    + Sunday, the Vatican announced the last-minute addition to the pope's schedule of a stop at Istanbul's landmark 17th century Blue Mosque.

    + Also Sunday, the Turkish news agency Anatolia quoted Benedict's spokesman as saying the Vatican does not oppose Turkey joining the EU.

    Benedict, before becoming pope, said he opposed Turkey's inclusion in the EU because its Muslim character positioned it "in permanent contrast to Europe." >>
    .....
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news
    --------------
    (etc).. [i]

  • #2
    I don't think this is helping either Turkey's EU bid or Islam's image.
    F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh common!!! look at the peaceful little fellas...
      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BenRoethig View Post
        I don't think this is helping either Turkey's EU bid or Islam's image.
        Does Islam have any (positive) image anyway? Turkey is tired of bidding for EU inclusion, everytime they have been given some reason on the other (although valid). Getting muslim turkey in the EU is a bad bad idea (and EU knows that), but how to say no? So they kept postponing it.

        I think Turkey on the bargain lost its Arab-Muslims friends and could never forge any real friendship with EU.

        Can you see the frustration?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jaan_pune View Post
          Does Islam have any (positive) image anyway? Turkey is tired of bidding for EU inclusion, everytime they have been given some reason on the other (although valid). Getting muslim turkey in the EU is a bad bad idea (and EU knows that), but how to say no? So they kept postponing it.

          I think Turkey on the bargain lost its Arab-Muslims friends and could never forge any real friendship with EU.

          Can you see the frustration?
          Turkey was supposed to be the proof that Muslims could live in a sane, democratic nation and peacefully co-exist with people of other faiths.
          F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BenRoethig View Post
            Turkey was supposed to be the proof that Muslims could live in a sane, democratic nation and peacefully co-exist with people of other faiths.
            Which is basically un-islamic in nature. And will never be possible as a long term promise. It is rather an adjustment to get into Christain World and once established....yes ...correct...jihad!!

            I am sick of this cult.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jaan_pune View Post
              Which is basically un-islamic in nature. And will never be possible as a long term promise. It is rather an adjustment to get into Christain World and once established....yes ...correct...jihad!!

              I am sick of this cult.
              lol, what do you propose, massacre every single Muslim? They have to adapt, my best wishes are with them that we will get to see a secular moderate Islamic nation. Though, I think even Lebanon can qualify maybe a bit later on, but they seem more or less, secular...
              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

              Comment


              • #8
                Newest Facts in Turkey, unfortunately look like ...Charlie Chaplin's famous film "The Dictator", where he depicted NAZIsm and Fascism's complex to try, at any price, to look "superior" to other people and humiliate them, at any price, even by obliging them to stay underneath, while ridiculous Nazi-Fascist dictators sat on bigger chairs to look higher than their victims...

                Among manifold Turkish attempts to "intimidate" him, Christian pope Benedict, some remind Charlie Chaplin's anti-NAZIsm film "the Dictator" : In particular when we shaw them impose to photographers 2 bullish-like Turkish soldiers, chosen to be ..twice higher than normal human beings (as if they were genetically engineered monsters), surrounding the Pope and even going up to a ..higher step than the pope, obliged to stay underneath them, ostensibly standing above the Pope, without even respecting nor leaving alone the elder man when he bowed to pray or think...

                This incident was added to the death threats, gross insults, more orchestrated demonstrations insulting the Christian religious leader even as .. "Devil", etc, extending to ostensible Propaganda for Armenian and other genocides' suspect, Ataturk, when Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan, in a 10 minutes hasty "meeting" at the Airport (!), imposed over the head of Pope Benedict's obviously revolted face, a huge portrait of Mr. Ata turk....












                --------
                [/img]

                "Pope Benedict XVI, surrounded by security men, leaves Ankara's mausoleum of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, ....Tuesday, Nov. 28, 2006."
                --------------






                http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20061128/2006_11_28t084433_450x337_us_pope_turkey.jpg[/img]




                ----------




                With a Turkish official supervising religions, Mr. Bourdakoglu, who recently accused Christian Pope Benedict to be.."hostile and Hateful" (sic !)
                -------------

                (Turkish "Petition" .. "against Pope's visit")..


                "Anti-Pope protesters display a long petition during a demonstration in front of the sixth century Byzantine monument of St. Sophia (Ayasofya), ... November 27, 2006"


                "a sign reading 'blood in the past, blood in the future, blood in the Vatican', protest the visit of Pope Benedict XVI in Ankara, Tuesday Nov. 28, 2006"




                "placards comparing Pope Benedict XVI to the devil during an anti-pope demonstration outside Turkey's religious affairs directorate in Ankara, November 28, 2006. "

                http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.c...l/l2242514.jpg

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think anything's "hidden" from these people.

                  -dale

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The demonstrations are proof that the nation of Islam is in the grip of fear that if it's own followers see an alternative to Islam, these people will see the light and turn their backs on the Islamic faith.
                    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Disturbing :(

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ocram youre nonsense mumbling, these were the most idiotic and manipulated piece of crap writings one can find in the face of earth. Nothing happened so far, except the demonstration that took place in sunday and that was absolutely nonviolent.

                        i dont say it is justified but i guess everyone except a thick head like you knows the reasons of demonstrations. Pope's recent speech for sure.

                        And the entire second post of yours is completely unbelivable, what are you talking about man?

                        Among manifold Turkish attempts to "intimidate" him, Christian pope Benedict, some remind Charlie Chaplin's anti-NAZIsm film "the Dictator" : In particular when we shaw them impose to photographers 2 bullish-like Turkish soldiers, chosen to be ..twice higher than normal human beings (as if they were genetically engineered monsters), surrounding the Pope and even going up to a ..higher step than the pope, obliged to stay underneath them, ostensibly standing above the Pope, without even respecting nor leaving alone the elder man when he bowed to pray or think...
                        Wow, youre a genius, no one except you can catch these "intimidations". Have you ever considered that all the things that you call as intimidaton against pope can be in fact standart ceremonies for every person officially visiting turkey?

                        This incident was added to the death threats, gross insults, more orchestrated demonstrations insulting the Christian religious leader even as .. "Devil", etc, extending to ostensible Propaganda for Armenian and other genocides' suspect, Ataturk, when Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan, in a 10 minutes hasty "meeting" at the Airport (!), imposed over the head of Pope Benedict's obviously revolted face, a huge portrait of Mr. Ata turk.... /
                        There is Ataturk pictures everywhere in turkey that wasnt a speciality for pope.
                        There were so far small groups of people who were protesting pope, majority of people here doesnt care at all about your papa, your spiritual daddy.

                        Ataturk is not a genocide suspect at all, in fact even people who are most enhousiastically defend the existence of a genocide still doesnt not blame him on the issue.
                        Sure except some full time turkish hating Armenian or greek nationalists idiots like you.
                        Last edited by laertes; 29 Nov 06,, 13:07.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                          lol, what do you propose, massacre every single Muslim?
                          No, just those who can't live and play nicely with others. :)
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                            The demonstrations are proof that the nation of Islam is in the grip of fear that if it's own followers see an alternative to Islam, these people will see the light and turn their backs on the Islamic faith.
                            huh? No actually, I think the Turkish government is suppose to be the one pulling the Turks to the secular moderate side and have been doing for quite some time now. Even though these guys can be considered extremist protestors, still, I suggest you compare these protests to the ones in the other Islamic countries with thousands of fanatics going all haywire, burning flags, carrying Ak-47s with little kids carrying guns sitting on somebody's shoulders... there is defenitely a difference between Turkey and your usual Islamic nation... But nevertheless these protests were dissapointing, I was once in aww of Turkey of being a forward moderate secular state, which don't get me wrong it still is in some respects, but these protests just prove, that Islam cannot be moderate...

                            Originally posted by gunnut
                            No, just those who can't live and play nicely with others. :)
                            Lets get right at it.... but errrmm... where do we start?
                            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Galaxy
                              Since it's about diverting "details", off topic, we can reply :


                              - Ocram, BenRoethig, Tronic, jaan_pune, dalem, bonehead, (etc) and Hundreds of readers, from one side,

                              and only Mr. "lardes" of .. "Istanbul", from a Turkish side with gross insults ....(an obvious fanatic with 99% of his posts merely on "Greece v. Turkey" ! see his profile).
                              Please keep just to the FACTS, ......or go away.

                              - This is a "WorldAffairs" board for Global issues. Please keep your obviously narrow nationalistic, merely greco-turkish (manifest in your posts 99% on "Greece v. Turkey" sic !)
                              approach for yourself

                              A good laugh, thats what you deserve after these comments, have you ever bothered to read what i wrote in these threads ? If you can find anything overnationalistic in them please notify me.


                              Btw, thats none of your business, i can write in any existing thread here, not planning to take permission from an ultranationalist who accuses me to be an utranationalist.;)

                              Dates, events, and even many "Ministers" of your Ata turk, notoriously prove the contrary of what you claim.
                              Just the contrary, dates, events and many persons' talkings prove exactly what i claimed.

                              Many Photos clearly show that the Holy Father did not like at all this kind of disrespectful, propagandist treatment...
                              i saw him with a turkish flag in his hand today on TV


                              Just clear up something for people who are interested in the subject,



                              ISTANBUL (Reuters) - More than 20,000 Muslims in Istanbul on Sunday held the biggest protest so far against Pope Benedict's controversial visit to Turkey this week.
                              http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061126/...pope_turkey_dc


                              In fact that was the only major protest so far against pope and was undertaken in sunday before his arrival, protesting his coming to turkey. None happened ever since..


                              ..He expressed support for Turkey's efforts to join the European Union, moving away from opposition he voiced when he was a cardinal.

                              Seeking to ease anger over his perceived criticism of Islam, Benedict met with Ali Bardakoglu, who heads religious affairs in Turkey, warmly grasping hands. Benedict sat nearby as the Muslim cleric defended his religion.

                              The Vatican described the cleric's speech as "positive, respectful and non-polemical," applauding what the church sees as efforts for a true dialogue between faiths.

                              On Sunday, more than 25,000 Turks showed up to an anti-Vatican protest in Istanbul, asking the pope to stay at home, but on the streets of Ankara most people went about their usual business and only a tiny protest was held outside the religious affairs office hours before the pope arrived.

                              "Today we had the sensation he was a welcome guest," said Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

                              "All feel the same responsibility in this difficult moment in history, let's work together," Benedict said during his flight from Rome to Ankara, where more than 3,000 police and sharpshooters joined a security effort that surpassed even the visit of President Bush two years ago.

                              Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan — in a last-minute change of plans — welcomed the pope at the foot of the plane and described the visit as "very meaningful." Erdogan's political party has Islamic roots, though the government is secular...

                              In his first official act, Benedict visited the mausoleum of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern Turkey, and wrote a message in a guest book calling Turkey "a meeting point of different religions and cultures and a bridge between Asia and Europe."
                              http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061128/...ea/pope_turkey

                              Any more nonsense uttering?
                              Last edited by laertes; 29 Nov 06,, 22:42.

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