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Thread: Future of afghanistan

  1. #1
    New Member raja khan's Avatar
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    Future of afghanistan

    there are elections to be held in afghanistan.how do u think the afghans will react to that provided they have never experienced sucha thing in their history.If warlords are to win from their respective areas(as it seems to be) what is the benifit to ordinary afghan.

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    What exactly is the "ordinary" afghan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    What exactly is the "ordinary" afghan?

    One that smokes opium during the day and bows to US troops, but at night takes his AK and goes for some hitchhiking in the mountains.

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    ~S_qwert63~

    You are obviously ignorant of the past. If history has taught us anything, its that Afghans are rebellious to external authority, the empire, British that is, attempted thrice and failed every single time, the Russians twice, again failed miserably. If an Afghan knows anything it is to fight. Its in our blood. We are fiercely independant people, you only have to look at the current events post-US-occupation in Afghanistan and the casualties at the hand of Afghans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAngeL999
    ~S_qwert63~

    You are obviously ignorant of the past. If history has taught us anything, its that Afghans are rebellious to external authority, the empire, British that is, attempted thrice and failed every single time, the Russians twice, again failed miserably. If an Afghan knows anything it is to fight. Its in our blood. We are fiercely independant people, you only have to look at the current events post-US-occupation in Afghanistan and the casualties at the hand of Afghans.
    What casualties? Killing UN aid workers and a bunch of ordinary Afghans because they have voting cards doesn't make you independent. It makes you insecure.

  6. #6
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Dark Angel,

    While what you state is right, but still I think 'civilisation' is touching them.

    We have enough of Afghanis in India. Many are students. Karzai was also educated in India. Therefore, whatever I have seen of Afghanis in India, they are as good as anyone. Fiercely independent. True. I have also interacted with the Kabuli as they call them, who are Afghanis who go door to door to sell dry fruits. Good chaps. In fact out poet laureate Tagore wrote a moving story called Kabuliwala and it was made into a film that won international recognition!

    Your post sort of indicates them as something totally out of this world. While the 'fiecely independent' attitude is true, yet they are as good a human as anyone else.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    ~Aryan~

    First of all, i'd like to ask what made you call yourself an Aryan, amuse me ?

    ~Ray~

    Thank you for the feedback, yes Afghanistan and Afghans have a long history with India (more so with mother India than Pakistan) and currently working side by side to bring prosperity in Afghanistan, a stable Afghanistan is a viable Afghanistan. I hope that both Afghanistan and India can continue their relations and benefit each other in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAngeL999
    ~S_qwert63~

    You are obviously ignorant of the past. If history has taught us anything, its that Afghans are rebellious to external authority, the empire, British that is, attempted thrice and failed every single time, the Russians twice, again failed miserably. If an Afghan knows anything it is to fight. Its in our blood. We are fiercely independant people, you only have to look at the current events post-US-occupation in Afghanistan and the casualties at the hand of Afghans.
    The Afghans are independent people, I agree with that, they are rebellious to external authority. However the past and the present also show us another side of the Aghan people, not only are the Afghans rebellious and independent people, they are also the pinnacle of the worlds drug trade.

    My mate lost 3 of his friends guarding the Tadzhik-Afghan border from Afghan drug traffickers and smugglers.
    My uncle was in Afghanistan and almost got hooked on opium, he said that all Afghans do during the day is get high and chill out.
    Do you not reckon that drug free Afghanistan will not only benefit itself but the whole world?
    However I highly doubt that Afghanistan will ever abandon it's drug cropping culture.
    The US should napalm bomb every single opium field in Afghanistan without regard to civilian casualities, that is the only way the world can be free of your countries drugs.
    Last edited by s_qwert63; 27 Jul 04, at 14:47.

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    Darkangel

    You tell me why you're called Darkangel, then we'll talk.

    Qwerty

    Tell me about it, areas full of Afghan immigrants such as Peshawar or Quetta are full of "tea houses" where people get loaded off opium all day. Afghan women take it as well, they even give it to their children. Worse and more uncivilised in my opinion than the subsaharan African tribes. I read somewhere 90% of heroin that makes the streets of western Europe originates from Afghanistan.

    I think we need to deport these ungrateful creatures back to Afghanistan, they certainly can't be trusted.

    Lets not forget the age-old Hindu saying:

    "Trust a Brahmin before a snake, and a snake before a harlot, and a harlot before an Afghan"

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    ~s_qwert63~
    Opium crops in Afghanistan is not a new phenomena, it was introduced by Chinese traders, centuries ago and became a thriving business in Afghanistan once upon a time. However, you choose to turn a blindeye towards the drugs trade between the USA and Columbia mainly and Peru and Bolivia whoa are not far behind Columbia, which was funded by the very senators and congressmen that condoned the Columbian government and its people of drug trafficking in the USA. The first place that should be bombed is the good 'ol US of A, my dear friend.

    ~Aryan~
    You cannot question a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan
    areas full of Afghan immigrants such as Peshawar or Quetta are full of "tea houses" where people get loaded off opium all day.
    Well firstly my dear **** friend, Peshawar and Quetta are areas that belongs to Afghans and Baluchi's respectively, the **** government might consider Afghans as immigrants but be rest assured the local population doesn't, Pashtoons are Afghans and vice versa. Afghania/Pakhtoonkhwa/Pakhtoonistan aka NWFP and Baluchistan province are disputed land between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Read up on the 'Durand' treaty.

    As far as opium is concerned, yes there is a small population that is hooked on this fatal drug, but making false statements such as its taken in the local 'tea houses' and the hogwash about the women and childeren is insulting if not ignorant, you should be ashamed of yourself. May Allah forgive you.

    P.S The purest Aryans can be found in Afghanistan and Iran in that part of the world.
    Last edited by DarkAngeL999; 27 Jul 04, at 17:41.

  11. #11
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan
    Darkangel



    Lets not forget the age-old Hindu saying:

    "Trust a Brahmin before a snake, and a snake before a harlot, and a harlot before an Afghan"
    Aryan,

    First of all you call yourself an Aryan. We have discussed this at length in a different thread, so I won't go into the hypocrisy involved in this claim by you. This was pointed out by another poster (non Indian and a European I presume) who traced the movement of Aryans etc. You seem to have been left out of the loop.

    Further, you seem to be an expert on Brahmins (I had also brought out that you have this racist tendency). I am no psychologist, but this much is evident that those who have no confidence in one's own self tend to attach labels to their indentity to gain acceptability. You seem to suffer a serious bout of identity crisis. You remind me of the film Bourne Identity.

    I would indeed be interested in you quoting authority to the Brahmin saying or else I think you are doing it to malign the Brahmins (who are Hindus and you are a Moslem or so I surmise since you also claim British descent or nearabouts). I too can make up little interesting sayings with sagelike stuff and ascribe them to Moslems in general and pseudo Pakistanis in particular. If indeed you want Pakistanis to well in the discussions, be like Asim. He goes off with brownie points and yet he makes his point!

    You are well within your rights to post sayings, but those which tend to incite disgust and racial discord should give authority so that there is no bad feeling.

    I find it a trifle assinine that a Brahmin saying would condemn itself by stating
    ' Trust a Brahmin before a snake....'. So what you are saying is that a Brahmin says that he is a wee bit better than a snake? It is a very juvenile attempt on your part and does not reflect well on your intelligence to even make up utter nonsense. Though you could replace Jay Leno.

    I am sure you received your education in a madrassa (the free Islamic school). It is only there that they teach religious hatred, be it against the Christains, Jews or Hindus and other religions.

    Note Christianity emphasise on love....love for mankind. The madrassa teaches hatred....hate all 'kaffirs' (i.e. all non Moslems) and when everything fails, call any nonsense a jihad and get away with murder. The saddest part is that the educated and emancipated Moslems (and there are many) don't have the guts to stop this nonsense perpetuated by the illiterate Mullahs croaking at the minaret and waking up the dead.
    Last edited by Ray; 27 Jul 04, at 17:43.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  12. #12
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    Aryan,

    The truth about the Pakhtoon or Pashtoons in NWFP is that they think they are more Afghan and less Pakistanis. Dark Angel is not wrong. Remember, Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan?

    If indeed we are talking about Aryans, I reckon Dark Angel is more Aryan than you even as per the theory you earlier propounded!
    Last edited by Ray; 27 Jul 04, at 17:48.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    Aryan,

    The truth about the Pakhtoon or Pashtoons in NWFP is that they think they are more Afghan and less Pakistanis. Dark Angel is not wrong. Remember, Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan?

    If indeed we are talking about Aryans, I reckon Dark Angel is more Aryan than you even as per the theory you earlier propounded!
    Ray,

    please .... we have already discussed this to boredom before ...

    Aryan and me are Kashmiris ... and I dion't think you get more aryan than that in our subcontinent.


    as far as the pukhtoon thingy; may I suggest that a Bengali like you, please do not try to speak on their behalf ...

    Besides the population of Pukhtoons in Pak and in our army and in our institutions are far far more than those on the other side of the border ...

    and the all claim to belong to Pakistan ... lets not fool ourselves ..

    logically, considering the figures and the emotions of our Pukhtoon, we have a stronger claim to the Pukhtoon areas in Afghanistan to join and unite with their original motherlands in Pakistan ...

    Please .... lets not get into this ...


    anyways, if we stay away from this topic .... and get back to the topic, I think Afghanistan will have a bright and prosperous future.

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    Well firstly my dear **** friend, Peshawar and Quetta are areas that belongs to Afghans and Baluchi's respectively, the **** government might consider Afghans as immigrants but be rest assured the local population doesn't, Pashtoons are Afghans and vice versa.
    Friend? I didn't know we were on friend terms yet.
    Actually the local pathan populace hate the opium smoking afghan refugees. They take their jobs by working for dirt cheap prices, and not to mention the fact that often the refugees are given aid when the local population is ignored.

    Afghania/Pakhtoonkhwa/Pakhtoonistan aka NWFP and Baluchistan province are disputed land between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Read up on the 'Durand' treaty.
    I know about the Durand line. It mattered a few years ago, during the afghan war, but no one cares now.

    As far as opium is concerned, yes there is a small population that is hooked on this fatal drug, but making false statements such as its taken in the local 'tea houses' and the hogwash about the women and childeren is insulting if not ignorant, you should be ashamed of yourself. May Allah forgive you.
    Ask anyone who has been to Peshawar and they'll tell you about the opium tea houses. People walk in and pay to get high. And as for the news about Afghan parents given opium to their children:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3036320.stm
    Its disgusting.
    And send my thanks to allah for the compliment

    P.S The purest Aryans can be found in Afghanistan and Iran in that part of the world
    Well the purest opium can be found in Afghanistan and rugs. If you want to discuss the racial make up of Afghanistan open up a thread and we'll discuss it along with historical influences.

    First of all you call yourself an Aryan. We have discussed this at length in a different thread, so I won't go into the hypocrisy involved in this claim by you. This was pointed out by another poster (non Indian and a European I presume) who traced the movement of Aryans etc. You seem to have been left out of the loop.
    You talking about Ray? He just parroted on about the same thing again and again. I had nothing left to say to him, he wouldn't listen to me. That isn't articulating a point, its a debate with a brick wall.

    Further, you seem to be an expert on Brahmins (I had also brought out that you have this racist tendency).
    Right, an expert on Brahmins has to be racist? I'm not an expert, all I've done is studied the caste system in hinduism.

    I am no psychologist, but this much is evident that those who have no confidence in one's own self tend to attach labels to their indentity to gain acceptability. You seem to suffer a serious bout of identity crisis. You
    remind me of the film Bourne Identity.
    Indians generally remind me of the film Planet of the Apes.

    I would indeed be interested in you quoting authority to the Brahmin saying or else I think you are doing it to malign the Brahmins (who are Hindus and you are a Moslem or so I surmise since you also claim British descent or nearabouts). I too can make up little interesting sayings with sagelike stuff and ascribe them to Moslems in general and pseudo Pakistanis in particular. If indeed you want Pakistanis to well in the discussions, be like Asim. He goes off with brownie points and yet he makes his point!
    I know Asim as a good friend and I know he would NEVER say anything for brownie points. If you want to find someone who does that, try looking a little closer to home. He's a lot more polite than me and a lot less blunt, but neither of us are going to change our view to suit anyone else.

    You are well within your rights to post sayings, but those which tend to incite disgust and racial discord should give authority so that there is no bad feeling.
    I didn't make it up if that is what you are implying, but

    I find it a trifle assinine that a Brahmin saying would condemn itself by stating
    ' Trust a Brahmin before a snake....'. So what you are saying is that a Brahmin says that he is a wee bit better than a snake? It is a very juvenile attempt on your part and does not reflect well on your intelligence to even make up utter nonsense. Though you could replace Jay Leno.
    Yea and you can replace Congo Bill.

    I am sure you received your education in a madrassa (the free Islamic school). It is only there that they teach religious hatred, be it against the Christains, Jews or Hindus and other religions.
    Thatís an old record. Every time I or another Pakistani doesn't agree with you, according to you we've studied at an islamic madrassa. I'm not going to answer it.

    Note Christianity emphasise on love....love for mankind. The madrassa teaches hatred....hate all 'kaffirs' (i.e. all non Moslems) and when everything fails, call any nonsense a jihad and get away with murder. The saddest part is that the educated and emancipated Moslems (and there are many) don't have the guts to stop this nonsense perpetuated by the illiterate Mullahs croaking at the minaret and waking up the dead.
    I don't think adherents of either faith can claim their religion to be more peaceful than the other. Both religions have been used to justify violence, murder and war. Its pretty easy to intrepret verses of the quran or bible to allow murder or whatnot to be justified.

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    Ray;

    reality check for you .... read this article from only 2-3 days ago .... does this look like the Pakistani Pukhtoons consider themselves Afghans??? This is a story of Pukhtoons from both sides of the border. Its just a common everyday article ... I am just using it as an example ...


    http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jul20...ain/main11.htm

    Eight Afghan militiamen kidnapped by Pak tribesmen

    PESHAWAR: Tribesmen in Bajaur agency had taken eight Afghan militiamen hostage, following a deadly clash over collection of tax on transportation of timber across the border, an official said Sunday.

    The hostages were being held by Salarzai tribesmen in Sara Ona, a village near the Afghan border, in the Bajaur tribal region, said Brig Mahmood Shah, the chief of security for the area. Four Afghan troops and one suspected timber smuggler were also killed in Kunar in anothr clash on Friday, in the other Afghan province opposite Bajaur.

    Sayed Fazl-e-Akbar, governor of Kunar, said the fighting occurred when the Afghan troops spotted the smugglers and tried to stop them. An elder from the Salarzai tribe, whose members live on both sides of the border, said the Afghan soldiers fought with other members of his tribe following a dispute over tax on timber they were bringing across the border.

    The tribesmen were angered after Afghan authorities "unilaterally increased" the tax on timber, said Zahir Shah Salarzai, who lives on the Pakistani side. Shah said government officials were negotiating with the tribesmen to release the hostages. "We are making efforts to get these men and hand them over to Afghan authorities," he said adding that the issue will be resolved soon.
    Last edited by visioninthedark; 27 Jul 04, at 19:15.

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